Gun Hub

Gun Hub (https://gunhub.com/forums.php)
-   Shooting (https://gunhub.com/forumdisplay.php?f=66)
-   -   What is of most concern when selecting an Optic. (https://gunhub.com/showthread.php?t=69554)

M118LR 10-23-2018 09:07 PM

What is of most concern when selecting an Optic.
 
What is the most important consideration when you choose an optic/scope?

How many of your rifles actually have a scope mounted that collaborates your most important consideration for selecting an optic/scope?

csmkersh 10-24-2018 06:03 AM

What the scope will be used for. Again, not one size fits all.

On a .22LR squirrel gun a 4X may be all you need. On a 22-250 dog gun a variable may make more sense as you may be shooting anywhere from 50 to 500 yards are greater.

As a trained operator you should know that. What's the deal?

Snake45 10-24-2018 06:22 AM

For a .22 rifle, my #1 requirement these days is adjustable objective. You might be shooting a .22 at anything from 25 to 125 yards, and setting up a scope at one of these ranges--or even right in the middle--will allow for a LOT of parallax at the other extreme. Took me years to learn this lesson.

dfariswheel 10-24-2018 01:48 PM

I very rarely ever used any kind of optic, but when I bought, my most important consideration was over all quality.
I always bought the best I could afford.

Second consideration was suitability for the task I was going to use it for.

stand watie 10-24-2018 01:55 PM

csmkersh,

Fwiw, as I don't see open or peep sights well anymore at 71YO, I use LEOPOLD or REDFIELD fixed-power scopes (2-4X) exclusively, except for the 2 carbines that wear old-school AIMPOINT.
(I hunt no area that a 4X isn't plenty of magnification.)

Note: As most of my friends here KNOW, my "dangerous game rifle" is a Model 760 Remington pump that Jessie at JES reformatted for me in 9.3x62mm. = For DANGEROUS GAME out to 100M, the 285 grain JSP or solid at 2350FPS & 2X Leopold, that I mounted upon it, is just about ideal.
That's the rifle that will make the trip to southern Africa in 2019 for Cape Buffalo & (HOPEFULLY) a leopard.

just my OPINIONS, sw

csmkersh 10-24-2018 02:37 PM

Weaver was THE SCOPE when I was a kid. When I started buying scopes for various Model 70s I got onto Leopold including a 0-4X for my .30-30 lever gun, a very old Marlin 36Rc. Somehow I stumbled onto Mueller when I bought my CZ 452 American. Love it.

As to peeps, I've even got an Aimpoint on my Bushmaster but back it up with Knight fold down peep. When needed, stand it up, sight through the Aimpoint and am good to 300.


Diamondback 10-24-2018 06:14 PM

First:
--DOES THE BLOODY THING WORK WITH MY LAME-ARSE EYES? It doesn't matter if it's a gee-golly-whizbang with automatic windage and range adjustment that all I have to do is put the dot where I want the bullet to go, if I can't SEE the stupid dot in the first place...

Second (non-magnifieds only):
--How well can I set it for co-witness? I prefer Absolute, that way I have the same sight-picture no matter what and using the dot naturally reinforces my sight picture through the BUIS.

Third:
--Now we get to Intended Role for me, though I'm still learning this stuff...

Just my two cents. :)

M118LR 10-24-2018 06:58 PM

Matching the scope to the rifles intended purpose, I figured that went without saying (CMS). But you are correct: A fixed 30X Target Dot Reticle wouldn't be optimum on a woods range carbine, But co-witnessing with the BUIS (as Diamondback mentions) would.

Perhaps I should be more specific?

How high does scope clarity and color distinction rank?

What about eye relief?

Does parallax free fixed power scope rank higher than a parallax adjustable variable power.

How about mechanical repeatability? Do you shoot "The Box" to find out how accurately your adjustments return to "Zero". Or is it of little concern?

Do you look for a Large Bell (requires higher mounting) or smaller bell sizes so that the scope can be mounted lower to the bore line?

Do you look for Large locking Turret knobs, or smaller more snag resistant knobs?

What about Wind/Elevation increments? .125 fine, .25, Mil, or .5 ?

Do you match the adjustments of the turrets to the increments on the reticle? Or is adjustment value determined by the caliber of the rifle?

Do you consider the ability to range a target with your scope/reticle to be more important? Or is BDC a greater concern? (shooting known distance or using electronic ranging devices)

How important is light gathering & total adjustability? One inch tubes or 30 mm/ 36 mm?

How important is the style of reticle? Crowded Horus or clean post?

How important are Brand Name or Country of Manufacture?

What about Warranties/Guarantees?

Or are there other factors (like co-witnessing) that are of more concern when you purchase a scope?

Hope this is a little more concise CSM. Perhaps I was a little to vague initially. Please pardon me.

csmkersh 10-25-2018 04:31 AM

I knew you had it in you, M118LR. :thumbsup:

dfariswheel 10-25-2018 01:45 PM

Almost all of your last questions are answered by buying a quality scope with the features that match what you're doing with it.

Any quality scope is going to have good glass with no distortion or color problems.
The other questions relate to the scope's use. On a hunting rifle that gets sighted in and not changed, "shooting the square" is not an issue. On a Target rifle it certainly is.

All you have to do is decide what the rifle is going to be used for, then decide what features are really needed.
Then buy the best scope with those features that you can afford.
The options are limited only by your wallet.

My buddy is a long range shooter and typically spends $3,000 to $4,000 for a scope, but he's one of the few people I know who can get that level of use out of a scope.
The last accuracy rifle he built, including the custom made action, custom barrel, silencer, custom stock, and semi-custom HIGH end Schmidt & Bender scope cost him $15,000 bucks.

Diamondback......
You set the sight up for whatever witness you want by choosing scope mounts that give the correct height.
As example on my Colt M4 I needed a medium height mount to get my red dot sight at an absolute co-witness.

M118LR 10-25-2018 08:11 PM

I purposely didn't question price point, as my 5-25 S&B costs more than my 5-25 Steiner, but the Steiner doesn't Tunnel from 5-10 power magnification like the S&B does.

The S&B is a little better with a color chart than the Steiner, (the difference between the S&B and Premier is even less) but all three are a whole bunch better with a color chart than any of my Leupolds.

Unfortunately, I can't equate price point with actual quality. But shooting "The Box" can determine if the scope you purchased is mechanically reliable. Just like glassing a color chart can determine how clear your scopes glass is. (Then there is the question of FFP or Second Focal Plane when it comes to being able to range your target with your scope.) Is it more important to determine the distance to your target on a hunting rifle that is set and forget, or a target rifle that shall be shoot only at known distances?

Haven't even begun to delve into how much usable MOA/MIL of travel is actual vice advertised. So a 1 inch tube, a 30 mm tube, or even 36 mm tube for mechanical purposes may be more caliber related than purpose related. Many scopes don't travel smoothly near thier maximums, so is there enough travel to mount the scope on a 10 MOA Base and still get a useable 100 yard Zero? What about a 20 MOA Base? Many of the .125 increment scopes are so limited that a 30 MOA Base (forget about 100 yard Zero) are required to take even the .308 Win to F-Class distances. We haven't even conversed about the scope weight. Is scope weight dependent on purpose? Is a precision rifle a detriment afield? Would a .308 Win precision bolt action rifle with a 3-15 variable FFP Mil-dot reticle scope work even better afield than say a 30-30 Lever Action with a 2X fixed co-witnessed Duplex reticle? Let's agree that 200 yards is maximum for humane offhand shooting. So even though the purpose is hunting, how do you know that your target is 200 yards distant if you can't range with your reticle? Not to mention how do you calibrate your hold over on a co-witnessed Duplex reticle that is set and forget at 100 yards on your 30-30 when taking a 200 yard kill shoot? So perhaps Point Blank Range of the rifle/caliber combo is of more concern than the intended purpose when purchasing a scope?

Adding a bit more meat on the bone, is this better CSM? Or does getting more specific become controversial?

CaptainGyro 10-26-2018 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfariswheel (Post 608418)
Almost all of your last questions are answered by buying a quality scope with the features that match what you're doing with it.

Exactly.

And I can tell you when and where to buy that scope: on eBay, in the first quarter of the year. Why? Because all the guys who bought really nice scopes that they couldn't really afford for the Fall hunting seasons put them up for sale in January and February to help pay the Christmas bills.

The scopes that I've come to really like are Leupold Mark IV's, and I've picked some up, nearly brand new and still in the box, at incredibly good prices just after the first of the year.

csmkersh 10-26-2018 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M118LR (Post 608434)
Adding a bit more meat on the bone, is this better CSM? Or does getting more specific become controversial?

How about that. Knowing you were just a poser got under your skin.

Yes, things like co-witness or shooting the square are things all should at least be aware of. While I don't do targets and only a hunter, I have shot the square to see how reliably I came back to zero IF I twiddled with windage or elevation settings in the field. These days my longest shot will be less than 100 yards so that's no longer an issue but just nice to know.

M118LR 10-26-2018 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csmkersh (Post 608446)
How about that. Knowing you were just a poser got under your skin.

Poser??? :confused:

Could you expound?

I'm just asking others (maybe not as militarily influenced as I myself) what is their process for choosing a scope, and what features are of importance.

csmkersh 10-26-2018 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M118LR (Post 608450)
Poser??? :confused:

Could you expound?

Sure, you framed a question pretending you didn't have a clue on selection scopes and matching them to the rifle and the job to be done. And the typical GI Joe or Jane hasn't a clue to a third of your knowledge. I certainly don't. My experience with military arms is limited to the 1911, .30 Carbine, Garand, M14 and M16 and none with fitted with a scope.

But I do know the smell of BS even though I haven't cowboyed in over 10years.

Anyway, Chief, you have a good day.

Diamondback 10-26-2018 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfariswheel (Post 608418)
Diamondback......
You set the sight up for whatever witness you want by choosing scope mounts that give the correct height.
As example on my Colt M4 I needed a medium height mount to get my red dot sight at an absolute co-witness.

True--this discussion seemed to be both scopes *and* RDS/prism-type optics too, and I just had a hell of a time figuring out an RDS to work with the backbone-rail on my AR pistol's handguard so that experience was fresh in mind.

dfariswheel 10-26-2018 04:34 PM

Fortunately, dealing with an AR and RDS sights is fairly easy.
Most mount makers specifically state what witness a specific mount will give.

It generally comes down to whether you want an absolute co-witness or a lower 1/3rd witness.
I've never heard of anyone using any other then those two.

M118LR 10-26-2018 07:23 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by csmkersh (Post 608458)
Sure, you framed a question pretending you didn't have a clue on selection scopes and matching them to the rifle and the job to be done.

I'm sorry you perceived my question to the membership in such a manner. It was not intended that way.

Having served, I'm sure you have experienced that there is no right or wrong way, just the Military way. To take off the Military blinders, gain knowledge and perspective from those trained outside the Military discipline, I can only ask others to share their experience & perspective. I might be the only member that doesn't own a scope without some style of ranging reticle? That's how ingrained the Military way is in my shooting dogma. Even my Mini-30 (7.62 x 39mm) which only has a 150 yard usable hunting range sports a 2-10 Tactical Weaver FFP EMDR.

http://www.weaveroptics.com/download...e_11_x_8-5.pdf

Somehow I don't think that this is the way that normal shooters begin the process of selecting a scope? Even my NV Scopes have mildot reticles. I've even got an ART. I mean who else has or even wants to use an ART? Not to mention that all my scopes got ARD. Just how many normal folks even consider these things?

M118LR 10-28-2018 02:19 PM

So can I assume that more folks have sunshades for their scopes than Anti Reflective Devices? (ARD)

dfariswheel 10-28-2018 05:34 PM

Probably.

That's only because a lot of scopes come with sun shade tubes, and many people just never heard of the ARD.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:48 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2002 - 2020 Gun Hub. All rights reserved.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.