Cap'n Dex

Hey fellows, I'm sorta looking for a low budget SHTF rifle. Primarily for a female shooter, but that's not to say I won't also use it. I've looked into daewoo, as in I saw one at a shop I frequent, and it looked like an AK and an AR had an ugly baby, but they're supposed to be stone cold reliable. I like how it's .223 and takes AR mags. Cuts recoil, and mags are easy to come by.

Also thinkin about an AK74 type clone. Well, how about something in that caliber, anyway? I kinda forget what it is, to be honest. But its supposed to be the cheapest ammo going. do those in that caliber use the same mags as the regular aks?

RenoF250

I think an SKS is the way to go.

Snake45

Stay away from the Daewoo. They're hella cool, but replacement parts are simply unavailable anywhere.

A low-end AR might be a good deal, if you can find one. (You should have started this search a year or more ago.)

I've seen Galil clones recently advertised as low as $600.

I just reread your OP and realize you said SHTF rifle, not necessarily a semiauto. Look at lever actions and bolt actions. In my (limited) experience, prices on those are a bit depressed at the moment, because all disposable dollars are going into buying up "assault weapons" and ammo. Bolts and levers are going begging. And don't forget you can save much by buying used.

M14man

SKS would be my recommendation.

JR

Magazines for the AK74 are entirely different than those for the AK47, in 7.62x39. The 5.45x39 ammo is certainly cheaper for now. The problem is finding an AK74 that hasn't been assembled from a kit by the Marx Brothers on crack, at an affordable price.

An SKS is a reasonable semi-auto SHTF rifle. Designed for use by barely-trained troops, it is sturdy, durable, combat-accurate, and still relatively cheap. Make sure that the guns are clear of corrosion (the ammo), and that any Yugo models aren't leaking at the grenade launcher gas port.

I like the Romanian or Russian models. They are forged and milled, and the original design, with chromed bores. Stick with the original magazine, the "removable" types need to be, so that you can switch them out as they jam. There are better sights available for them, that enhance accuracy.

They are heavier than a stripped AR. Yet, by the time that you're done adding the "mandatory" rails, lights, jacuzzi, optics, NVD, and laser-illuminator to the AR, it weighs 13 pounds, making the SKS a featherweight in comparison.

Cap'n Dex

I bought on lever gun last month. My .45-70. I do enjoy shooting that, but its not for the recoil sensitive. Recoil is one of those things that I'm looking to not have to deal with in terms of SHTF rifle for a female shooter. Bolt guns typically will have a nice strong kick to em. I've never fired a lever action .30-30, but I've fired my brother's bolt action .30-30, and that thing was not fun to shoot. But lever action .30-30's can be had cheap around here. Seems to be the one thing that's never in short supply.

The galil is a cool gun I'd like to have, but last I checked, the mags are unbelievably high in price. It would be a great gun to have, though.

I've had a yugo SKS before, but sold it to buy a part for my car. I'm not opposed to SKS as the recoil was managable, ammo's cheap, and they are surprisingly accurate. I'd rather something in .223, but nobody's selling .223's for cheap. Ammo, or rifles. The last mini 14 I bought (the one I kept) set me back $300, but that was nearly 2 yrs ago. The cost of building an AR is about the same as buying a complete one, so it doesn't even really make sense to go down that road. The SKS I had NEVER gave me any kind of problem at all. The WASR10... heh... it was hard getting thru a thirty round mag without at least 1 jam.

What would be nice is one of the shorter barreled SKS rifles. I realize you're giving up some velocity, and accuracy, and increasing noise, but I'd think it'd be handier overall than the longer barreled versions. I think I am looking for a norinco.

Thanks

BigMike

Try a lever action .357 Magnum. Felt recoil is much less than 357s from a revolver.

They are fast to dump a magazine load downrange ... but the (tubular) magazine is fixed, and must be reloaded one round at a time. If you haven't solved the problem with the first magazine load, the second will be real slow. Of course you can reload one round, shoot one round, reload one round ... etc.

I've got one with an intermediate eye relief Leupold mounted "Scout Style." I like everything about it ... except for the slow reloads.

Madcap72

Could always do what I did and go with an AR-180.

Get a 180b and they use ar-15 mags, and have a gas piston, all the rage now (although the 180 had them in the 60's).

They are light, mines been reliable, clean shooting (and are made to function dry JIC).

Another good thing, a 180b is still less than a grand, when many gas piston AR's are 1500+

5.56 is still available, albeit pricier than it was, but still has a good qty./ weight ratio if your looking for a SHTF gun.

MUCH lighter than a SKS! Pretty accurate to boot. I've been posting 1" groups out of mine off hand @ 25 yards with cheap ammo. Haven't been able to stretch it's legs outside though

JR

Some lever guns, in pistol cartridges, have problems feeding the rimmed cartridges. The Cowboy guns are much more reliable in those calibers, or have been gun-smithed until they are reliable.

Cooper felt that a lever-gun, in a pistol caliber like .357, was a good "Urban Rifle" for those areas where the Black Rifles were not considered PC. Just no pointed projectiles. They tend to make tube-feeds messy.

How much money you want to spend is going to limit your choices.

You could buy an SKS-D or "M". Or a paratrooper. The para was a short-barreled SKS, with fixed magazine. The "D" and "M" both used the AK47 mags. Both of the latter two are pricey today for an SKS. The para is less expensive.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/976968216/Gu ... gazine.htm

This is a Para-D, a short barreled SKS which handles AK mags. It's priced at $375.00.

http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=1877787

http://www.gunsamerica.com/976873984/Gu ... rooper.htm

Cap'n Dex

The trouble with .357mag lever guns is they're hard to come by around here, for some reason. I picked up a rossi .357mag lever gun used for about $150 a few years back, and it is a fun gun to shoot. Its got plenty of power, and its every bit as accurate as I can be. As in, if I miss, the reason's probably not the rifle. I don't think there's much you can't do with a lever action .357. However, the one I have is really finicky about ammo. It'll shoot SWC .38specials all day, but it won't feed .357 SWC's. But it doesn't feed the white box Winchester 130gr FMJ's from walmart, either. It used to. Being able to reload spare rounds between shots is one of the big reasons why I like lever actions. You don't really have to take the gun out of play to reload it.

The AR180 isn't a terrible idea, but its not something I've seen alot of. I think I've seen about two of them over the years. If it weren't for a lack of them in the pipeline, I may act on that.

The SKS is probably the way I'll go. Hopefully someone makes a synthetic stock that isn't monte carlo, ugly, or folds. I should have bought the SKS I saw a couple years ago that took AK mags. But I didn't. hindsight's 20/20, eh? Probably if I was smart, I would have bought the norinco SKS I saw the other week for $200.

JR

The AR180b uses a polymer lower. It has a One Year Warranty. The standard ARs of the company have a Life Time Warranty. The poly lower has been a perspective problem, and has limited sales. The difference in Warranty also seems to many to be the result of the company realizing that the gun won't last as long as their other products. This may well be nothing but perception. Remember the concerns over the durability of the Glock? However, American Sportsmen are a conservative lot.

H2O_Man

What dollar amount is "low budget" for you?

BuffaloGun

For a low budget semi the SKS is a good choice. Rugged, dependable and still can be found under $200.00.
7.62x39 is not that expensive and recoil is minimal.
Don't bother with magazine magazine conversions, you can load pretty fast from stripper clips.
Loads of accessories and parts available at low prices.

Skeptic49

There is the Kel-Tec 16C about $590 locally despite the shortage. Uses AR magazines including 30's very light, easily carried and folds short.



Geoff
Who notes Kel-tecs are designed to be carried a lot and shot a little...ancient carbine formula.

Cap'n Dex

found 2 yugo SKS's the other day. Both around $300. Funny story, that visit to the gunshop. I found something I wanted/needed, but didn't buy it. A field barrel for a remington 870 12ga for $115. I'll get it if its still there tuesday night, but that place was infested with idiots who are unfit to man slingshots, and one of them was buying an AR. It always makes me extra nervous when idiots can't keep their fingers off triggers indoors, and are completely oblivious to where they're pointing guns like they don't know the first thing about safety. All I got to say about that is if I get screwed out of a cheap 870 barrel, I'm gonna be super P/O'ed. The Gomer Pyle family was ravaging the place, and the owner was kept busy.

I'm thinkin SKS is the way to go. I think I could do alot worse. If I can find one for about $200, it'll have a new home.

Skeptic49

Ammo is in short supply, but I have seen 7.62x39 Winchester White Box and .223 Varmint loads from Remington at the Wal*Mart at Fleming Island FL. In the past month I've found ONE box of .45 Winchester White Box 100s, no 9mm 100s or 9mm Personal Defense anywhere I've looked. Gander is having a sale...but there is little available but .40 S&W. and some very expensive .223 Orange Box 200s.

Geoff
Who has money when there is no ammo, and no money when there is ammo...sigh.

Cap'n Dex

Roger that. I reload for cost. Or I did at first. I got into custom tailoring loads, but even the components are expensive. Or at least more spendy than they had been. I kinda kick myself whenever I think about the once fired brass I turned in for scrap when brass was worth more.

I don't shoot much anymore, sadly enough. The upside is I don't spend alot on ammo anymore, but I do lay it in when I can. I have been lucky when it comes to .223 ammo, falling bass-ackwards into great deals. I recently picked up a case of Federal M193's for $80. Before that, I picked up about 800rds of Malaysian M193's for $60. These guys who need money more than ammo are great.

shep854

I recommend the SU16, in whatever flavor you fancy. Mine is a "C" model. Early last year, with the Presidential election prospect starting to look bad, I decided it was time to begin looking for a replacement for the AR15 I stupidly sold a few years before. The fact that I still had AR mags helped direct my search. I thought about AKs and Rugers , but the expense of extra mags held me back. I decided that a used "A" or "B" model would be my best bet, but came across the "C" that I bought at a really good price (for the time). Like all other semi-auto rifles, prices have gone up, but the SU16 still runs for less.

The SU16 uses a piston for its gas operation, is chambered for 5.56 (not .223), and now are being made with chrome-lined bores as well as having an integral sight rail. Kel-Tec also offers a lifetime warranty, which they honor!

Cap'n Dex

I hear ya. When It was lookin like obamalamadingdong was going to win, I hit up the CMP for an HRA SG M1 rifle. That was definitely worth the money. It was like new, almost. But I digress. I'm still holding out hope I'll find a norinco SKS for about $200. The thing that sucks most about that is that 7.62x39 ammo is now hard to come by. Seemed like every shop around here was practically giving it away a few months back, and now you can't find it, or you have to sell the gun to afford ammo for it. cabelas was the only place that I found that had it, but it was something like $270/1000rds. My source for .223's much cheaper. drat. Don't you hate a hard decision?

Snake in the Grass

Snake,
You wrote: "Stay away from the Daewoo. They're hella cool, but replacement parts are simply unavailable anywhere."


I question if you've ever had a Daewoo to base your opinion on. It has got to be one of the finest .556 rifles out there. There are replacement parts available now, although the rifle does not break. It is a quality proven rifle.

I have a daewoo K2 that would be my first choice if I had to "grab one", and my collection would stun most here. The Daewoo is a quality piece. I have no problem betting my life on this rifle.