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Old 02-13-2005, 07:36 PM   #1
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,362
Fix HK91 or buy PTR91?

At the moment, my HK 91 is as follows:

FMP receiver, brand new HK parts kit, with compliance parts of pistol grip, hammer, sear, and a sleeved flash hider that counts as a muzzle brake.

Of course, that means that I use US made mags. No sweat.

Here's the problem........ I purchased this stick from a guy, who said that he'd only fired about 80 to 100 rounds through it. Fine. Unfortunately, when I got it, I found out that it hadn't been cleaned afterwords.

Due to the high humidity of Florida, and the fact that G3 barrels aren't chrome lined, it's got "some problems".

Between the time I got it, and I got the stick cleaned up well, the fellow I purchased it from died. Really unexpectedly. Obviously I can't ask him to make the situation right, although I know he would if he could.

I can pay to have the situation fixed, by the guy who built it (Volmer), but it'll wind up costing me about $450 to get a new G3 barrel on there, put a real flash hider on there, etc.

I got a good deal on it, so the extra $450 would bring the total to what it cost new.......

I can send SARCO a copy of the FFL, and get a new PTR91 with flash hider for $700 or less.

I'd REALLY be interested in opinions from you PTR owners. Would you say the PTR is every bit as good as the Volmer G3?

The problem is, since I'm having this FAL built now, I can't afford to have my G3 fixed AND buy a PTR both. At least not this month

So is the difference of $250 worth it to get a PTR, or should I save the $250, and have my G3 rebarrelled?

Thanks!
Bravo762 is offline  
Old 02-13-2005, 08:51 PM   #2
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,198
Do the "problems" make it completely unsafe to shoot, or just a total pain from copper fouling/lack of accuracy?

If it is still functional, you might want to go with getting another gun, as you'll now currently have 2 usable guns, and then have 1 usable while the HK91 is getting worked on later on, instead of being down 1 while the HK91 is getting worked on now. A gun in hand is worth more than 2 getting worked on...

If it needs to be fixed for safety issues, you may want to go ahead and get it done now, unless someone tells you that the PTRs are going to be going up in price in the near future. Shopping around for a good deal on one might net you enough cash to get a barrel and just "sit on it" until you can afford to have the smith-work done. I'm pretty sure Sarco had some "new condition" barrels recently for not too much.

skslover is offline  
Old 02-13-2005, 09:26 PM   #3
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,362
And one more question......

Also, I'm wondering if things have changed on the PTR. Do they now have the paddle mag release as well? One kind of gets spoiled

Howdy SKS Dudeski!

Yeah, the problems are just barrel pitting, almost ALL the way down the barrel. Grouping isn't obscene, but it's not good. Not what I'm used to, normally these sticks have really pretty decent accuracy. Of course, the muzzle comp / flash hider change out is just for me......

At first I thought it was just me and the surplus ammo I was shooting. I just patched the thing until it didn't come out green anymore, and shot it. Blech. Nope. It's pits.

I thought about what you suggested too. My "good deal" find was a brand new (not a take-off) German G3 barrel for $105. I'm sure, with shipping and the rest of the parts (flash hider, etc), it'll be less than $150. Just puts the PTR a month out instead of RIGHT NOW. HA!

Either way, I wouldn't be out of 7.62 NATO sticks, that's for sure LOL!
Bravo762 is offline  
 
Old 02-17-2005, 03:34 AM   #4
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 96
I would go with the PTR. I have had zero problems with mine and I was surprised at the accuracy of it.
I can't give a comparison to the Volmer G3 as I have never had one. I can tell ya I'm looking for another PTR.
e7longrange is offline  
Old 02-22-2005, 08:51 AM   #5
JSS
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 391
Whats up guys

I just bought a PTR -91. The accuracy on it was passable groups but high out to two hundred yards. I did have a problem with fte's I bought a bunch of mags on cheapter than dirt, I dont know if the mags are the problem. Also it was destroying brass throwing it appox 28 feet from where I was shooting. Is this normal?
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Old 02-22-2005, 09:16 AM   #6
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Quote:
Also it was destroying brass throwing it appox 28 feet from where I was shooting. Is this normal?
Normal. Everything in the CETME/G3 family does that. I believe the record is 35 feet.

As for your mags, scrub them out real good as dirt and crap builds up in them. If that doesn't fix the problem, you might have to fit them to the gun with a small file.
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Old 02-22-2005, 10:12 AM   #7
JSS
 
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Thanks for the tip.
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Old 02-22-2005, 11:09 PM   #8
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSS
Whats up guys

I just bought a PTR -91. The accuracy on it was passable groups but high out to two hundred yards. I did have a problem with fte's I bought a bunch of mags on cheapter than dirt, I dont know if the mags are the problem. Also it was destroying brass throwing it appox 28 feet from where I was shooting. Is this normal?
LMAO!

Yep.....
Lets see, I've broken a car window, tagged my mom, tagged a squirrel.......... all with just the brass!!!!

A handloaders/reloaders dream it isn't.............


BRAVO-

Before doing anything- have it checked by a gunsmith; after that you DO have a couple of choices. I'd try the Outer's Foul Out II or III electo rod cleaner (what, $60 bucks) after getting out as much of the rust as possible...

Short of that I'd hate to see any HK get left by the wayside. If I weren't in the PRK I'd offer to take it off your hands for what you paid for it. But I can't --so I can't
Rebuild it! Rebuild it and sell the barrel to the freak on E-bay selling Fake barrels!(LOL, just kidding).

If its safe I'd shoot the Fudge out of it THEN rebarrel it- Just me and my .02
metalhead357 is offline  
Old 02-23-2005, 11:07 AM   #9
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalhead357
I'd try the Outer's Foul Out II or III electo rod cleaner (what, $60 bucks) after getting out as much of the rust as possible...
Rust isn't a problem. I keep a thingie of JB bore paste on hand. I like to hit my barrels with it about every 300 to 500 rounds. Strips the copper right out of there. Or anything else. I kept patching this barrel with it until the patches came out black....... that's steel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalhead357
Rebuild it! Rebuild it and sell the barrel to the freak on E-bay selling Fake barrels!(LOL, just kidding).
Got some parts "on the way". Ordered from Top Notch. A brand-new German barrel, a flash hider (to replace the muzzle brake), and a tripple frame. Why a tripple frame? Because this way, the barrel can be pressed out, and nobody will have to mess with heating the barrel and taking the muzzle brake off to get the old tripple frame off. Seemed like a good thing to do for $25 ("virtually new" G3). Besides, this one has the evil bayo lug (GRIN), and while I don't see ever purchasing a bayo for this thing, I do LOVE pissing off liberals!
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalhead357
If its safe I'd shoot the Fudge out of it THEN rebarrel it- Just me and my .02
It's safe to shoot, all the pitting is just a bit forward of the chamber, to almost the muzzle. Just doesn't shoot like it should, and strips copper off (copper fouls) like you wouldn't believe.

The hardest decision will be if I should incorporate this barrel in my Riflemans Windchimes. I didn't shoot it out, so I'm thinking not.......

Windchimes, what else you gonna do with shot-out barrels? Besides, they're kind of a measure of accomplishment. Besides, someone looking at them will KNOW what they are
Bravo762 is offline  
Old 02-23-2005, 03:40 PM   #10
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,198
Quote:
Windchimes, what else you gonna do with shot-out barrels?
Strip them down, cut them into pieces, slice one side all the way through to the bore, heat them up nicely, open it up, and use that nice steel to make yourself a custom knife!
skslover is offline  
Old 02-23-2005, 04:00 PM   #11
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 384
Those PTR-91's throw brass into the next county. Yep, its normal.
MoeMentum is offline  
Old 03-03-2005, 07:39 PM   #12
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5
For now I would just shoot the 91 as is.

Is the barrel for your FAL build in good shape ?
The STg-58 barrels are some of the best I have seen.

Good Luck, Court in FL.
Court in FL. is offline  
Old 03-04-2005, 07:15 AM   #13
 
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Court in FL, I got to the point I just couldn't take looking at the pits

Really, I scrub barrels, and then look at 'em to see clean. Unfortunately, all I see is pits. Top Notch says that my order should have already shipped out, so I'm just waiting. Seems they accidentally oversold some new German barrels, and the one I ordered was one that was oversold. They got more in though, so no harm, no foul. Just a little wait LOL!

The barrel for the FAL (when it arrives) should be brand new. I ordered one of those combo deals, the gas cylinder, barrel, and gas block all as one assembly. A new Imbel. Like the HK parts though, I'm still waiting.

The UPS guy must love me right about now
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Old 03-04-2005, 08:12 AM   #14
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,198
Quote:
The UPS guy must love me right about now
Mine is gonna hate me--he's got 870 rounds of ammo (2 cans), and a STG58 kit to carry.
skslover is offline  
Old 03-05-2005, 07:26 PM   #15
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 256
As metalhead said, shoot the hell out of it and don't worry. I believe the more you shoot it the fewer pits you'll see. These rifles were never designed as tack drivers. I have a CETME with Immaculate barrel and Im happy with a group inside 3in. at 100yd. My targets are usually cans and I don't even measure groups. 6 out of 10 cans is good accuracy for me. Now, on the other hand , when I got around to cleaning my Win. Garand a week after unknowingly using corrossive here in La. and watching the fine rust particles piling up on the bolt face I know what the worst feeling a Gun Owner can have. Since then I have fired about 200rd. and the pitting has cleared a little.
oneshy is offline  
Old 03-28-2005, 08:53 PM   #16
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,362
Got the parts in today, thought I'd let you guys know some things from experience (can't do that on SOME forums.....) so you don't fall into the same problems I had.

1. I originally ordered parts from Top Notch. Nothing shipped, as the barrels were "accidentally oversold" - they were "in stock" when I ordered. OK, I'm game, mistakes happen. But then the first arrival date came and went, no barrels. Then the second arrival date came and went, still no barrels. Hmmmm. Did a little investigating, and asking around. What I found out is that Top Notch is owned by the brother of the guy who owns Speshul Wepunz (special weapons). Our local retailer here (which I don't much care for anyway) purchased a Speshul Wepunz MP5 type. Kind of funny, he showed up at the range while I was there, toting that piece of rubbish. I think he could get three rounds max off before it jammed. Most were singles. To say that he wasn't happy would be an understatement. Understanding the relationship between the two companies, my standpoint was clear. Order was cancelled. I should mention that there were "concerns expressed" about the nature of the "new German G3 barrel" I would be getting, as it wouldn't be an HK build, but an after-market, from Speshul Wepunz. Bait and switch? Dunno.......

2. I wound up getting the parts from Mark Graham, at Arizona Response Systems. Mark and I go back some years, and I can comment on some of his work from plenty of first hand experience. Good enough for me to trust my neck on, on a daily basis. 'Cause I do. Just didn't know he sold HK parts! HA! Anyway, the barrel was an FMP in what appears to be tremendous shape. The rest of the parts were a mix of HK and FMP, and all were in at least as good of shape as the barrel. The order from Mark was almost exactly the same price as the order from Speshul Wepunz, but it actually came, so bonus there. Moral of the story? Go with the guy you know will give you good service, and you can trust. Oh, and check out his website more often, so you know what he's got on hand for sale

At this point, since I've been "backordered" at the Dealers Warehouse and SARCO both for my FAL barrel (BLECK!), it depends on what happens first as to which one Mark builds first. I'd prefer to do the FAL first.........

Either way, Mark is going to do them both.

Oh, and I did check something out. It appears that there is a difference in the FMP and the HK cocking handle supports. If you've got a marginally too short support, and it's an FMP, you might try a HK. The difference was 5 or 6 thou, which can be significant on that part. Of course, in my case, this helps NOTHING.

Fun and games, fun and games........
Bravo762 is offline  
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