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Old 03-12-2019, 08:03 PM   #1
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Top of the World Rifle.

Going to go hunting at the "Top of the World" once again.
Narrowing down calibers I've decided to trust .30, but I need some Brushpopper & Stand up shooter input.

A 18 inch barreled 30-06 with 220 grain projectiles matches the peak of any .308 Win pushing a 220 grain projectile even with a 24 inch barrel.

Ounces make pounds, pounds equal pain, hunting rifles get carried more than shot.

So if you are going to Trudge the Tundra (mile after mile) would the extra weight of a 24 inch barrel be worth your time and energy if it allowed you the performance increase of the 300 Win Mag to the convenience of an 18 inch barreled 30-06?

The rifle will be a Winchester Model 70, but which configuration would you take with you to hunt Bruin? Both Kodiak & Polar.

Thanks for your opinion, in advance.
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:21 AM   #2
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Both are subspecies of the brown bear. The Polar has the genes to cause it to grow considerably larger than the Kodiac. Much larger than I'd care to be within brushpopper hunting distances.

https://polarbearfacts.net/kodiak-bear-vs-polar-bear/

I'd use what ever rifle and caliber I could keep all rounds in a palm sized spread at up close and personal ranges as fast as I could run the bolt or lever. Think I'll stick to making Bambi into brisket.
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:28 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csmkersh View Post
Think I'll stick to making Bambi into brisket.
Thanks csmkersh.

A long, long, long time ago, far away and above the arctic circle. I used a Remington Model 7 in .308 Win. to harvest most every hooved critter up there. Turning Bambi into brisket is probably much smarter than chasing critters with teeth & claws. I've already survived the experience of being on the menu of Ursus Maritimus. Fortunate for me that he died of lead poisoning before dinner. Definitely pumped that shotgun faster than even my best day dove hunting. But that was his last hunt and not mine.
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:34 AM   #4
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If ya gotta go for bear a shotgun is the way to do it. Me? I'd load 000, slug, 000, slug, 000.
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:55 AM   #5
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csmkersh; All,

YEP. OR my 9.3x62mm with the 286 grain JSP @ 2400FPS OR even a heavier caliber rifle.

Personally, I would NOT use any .30 caliber for the BIG bears, as I like my increasing tender/fragile 72yo body & would prefer that it stays unmauled/uneaten.

As I've said elsewhere, Pastor Mack Roy, the home missionary from our church, HAD to kill a hungry female Polar Bear INSIDE the church's CHRISTIAN LIFE CENTER & that had "crashed" a baby shower. = He successfully used a sporterized Model 98 Mauser in 9.3x62mm for the task.
(Then, the congregation skinned/out butchered the bear & everyone took home a good-sized piece.)

yours, sw

Last edited by Doughboy; 03-14-2019 at 11:05 AM. Reason: add
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:39 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csmkersh View Post
If ya gotta go for bear a shotgun is the way to do it. Me? I'd load 000, slug, 000, slug, 000.
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Old 03-14-2019, 07:41 PM   #7
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I'm thinking that elephants are larger and thicker skinned than Bruins? So if W.D.M. Bell could drop over 1000 elephants with a 7 x 57 Mauser, than a .30 Caliber projectile at even higher speed & kinetic energy should be capable of dropping a Bruin as long as the shooter can do his/her part?

https://www.chuckhawks.com/bell_elephants.htm
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:14 PM   #8
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M118LR,

Pardon me for pointing out that neither you nor I are Karmoja Bell.

Personally, I wouldn't trust ANY .30 caliber rifle to take down a BIG angry bear. - You are FREE to disagree & use ANY weapon that pleases you, including a .22LR.

yours, sw

Last edited by Doughboy; 03-14-2019 at 09:47 PM.
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Old 03-15-2019, 05:16 AM   #9
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csmkersh,

Fwiw, the famous/late PH Harry Selby said that the ONE firearm that he would never be without for STOPPING dangerous game at close range was his trusty Matador double-barreled 10 gauge & "loaded with heavy shot".

In one case, he stopped a wounded/charging Cape Buffalo with that shotgun & the Buffalo literally fell dead at his feet. = Selby's comment, with typical British understatement, was, "It was a near thing."

yours, sw
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Old 03-15-2019, 05:16 PM   #10
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Somehow I see the irony of a user name Doughboy (as in the last generation issued .30 caliber by Uncle Sam) suggesting that I'm free to use a .22 caliber? (sort of like the M16/M4 debacle)

Yes, I know that isn't the original username.

sw, would it be typical understatement to suggest that you might favor WWII German Built Mausers & Classic Calibers?

(But if your going to show favoritism toward a rifle Mausers are good place to start. JMHO)

I was just wondering what the ratio of modern American rifles in modern American calibers of the indigenous Native Americans in the area is, to say WWII Germany Classic Firearms & calibers? I may be incorrect? But I believe that the current indigenous population has a much greater ratio of modern American firearms in modern American calibers that are far easier to procure at the local outfitters. JMHO. Please correct me if I'm barking up the wrong tree. Thank You.

But yes, there is no replacement for cubic inch displacement. But a double 10 isn't exactly a precision 200 yard hunting implement. But if I can touch a critter with the muzzle, odds are it's probably going to stop fairly quickly as long as I touch it in the right spot.

At what point does a rifle become to valuable as a collector to take it out into the harshest conditions afield?

Last edited by M118LR; 03-16-2019 at 01:53 PM. Reason: rifle value?
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Old 03-18-2019, 03:12 AM   #11
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M118LR,

Actually, I'm a Model 760/7600 Remington addict. = Right now, I own one in almost every caliber that Remington made from .223/5.56NATO up to my treasured 9.3x62mm, that Jessie at JES reformatted for me.
(Fwiw, I've got yet another Model 760 with a pitted barrel that will soon go to JES to become a .400 Brown-Whelen Improved, to take to Africa.)

Fyi, I don't own any WWII era German Mausers, though I've owned several WWI era German, Spanish & Latin American Mausers over the decades. - Right now, I don't own ANY Mausers.
(My favorite Mauser is the "old school" S/A War era Model 93.)

According to Pastor Roy, whose large congregation is over 80% Native Alaskans, virtually all of the Native AL hunters shoot .303 British, .30-06 & .30-30WCF. He said that a large percentage of them also use surplus FMJ for hunting, because military ammo is CHEAP.
(Because a person shoots whatever they can afford, barter for and/or are given, that doesn't mean that that's the BEST caliber for big game hunting.)

According to PH Harry Selby a double 10-gauge loaded with "heavy shot" is nearly perfect for STOPPING a wounded elephant, rhino, Cape Buffalo or hippo at CLOSE RANGE.
(Virtually ALL dangerous game hunting is at 100M or less, so how well a rifle/shotgun does at 200M is UNIMPORTANT.)

NOTE: Karamoja Bell once opined that he was "little impressed" about how well someone could shoot BIG game at 200 yards, "but rather more how well he kills at TWO YARDS."

yours, sw

Last edited by Doughboy; 03-18-2019 at 01:37 PM. Reason: add
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Old 03-18-2019, 07:25 AM   #12
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There is a couple on one of the Alaska TV shows that are hunter gatherers, they use a Finnish M39 Moisin.
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Old 03-18-2019, 08:43 AM   #13
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bearcat6,

I'm NOT surprised, inasmuch as the old Moison Nagant was once CHEAP to buy, - I wouldn't be surprised either if US-made Moison rifless were still being used, as they were in the 1960s VERY CHEAP as military surplus rifles.

yours, sw
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Old 03-18-2019, 10:33 AM   #14
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bearcat6 is spot on. And that old rifle is almost as long as the hunter is tall. It's not unusual to see her make long running shots at caribou.
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Old 03-18-2019, 01:33 PM   #15
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csmkersh,

Imo, the rifle wouldn't have to be very long inasmuch as most of the Inuits & Eskimos in Pastor Roy's congregation aren't any taller than his wife in the group photos that they often send to our church. - Dot's 5' 6" tall.
(Roy looks like he's ahead taller than most of the men & he's 6'.)

Also, most of the clothes that Roy asks us to buy for the congregation are in size SHORT or PETITE sizes & that are hard to find and/or $$$$$$$$$ up there.

Roy asked me to buy a HS girl a pair of hunting boots a couple of years ago in ladies size 4D.
(I liked to have never found a pair of boots that small.)

A personal NOTE: When I was a student at "The Benning School for Bad Boys" in 1974, one of our class-members was a CPT in the Alaska Scouts. He said that they were ISSUED 1903A3 Springfield rifles & encouraged to use those rifles & ball ammo for hunting to feed their families.
(He said also that the Canadian Rangers, i.e., the Native Canadian Scouts, are issued a SMLE in .303 British.)

yours, sw

Last edited by Doughboy; 03-18-2019 at 01:43 PM. Reason: add
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Old 03-18-2019, 02:21 PM   #16
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Agnes' height is listed as 5' 3''
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Old 03-18-2019, 05:08 PM   #17
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I think I'm in love with Agnes.
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Old 03-18-2019, 08:10 PM   #18
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Got tossed, sorry.

Short version sw, all the calibers mentioned are .30 at or below the ballistic performance of the 300 Win Mag. If I'm being stalked by a White Bear he will be able to get close enough to me to be measured in feet instead of yards. (been there done that) When I'm stalking that same Polar Bear on his ice pack I better be damn sure I'm able to deliver the message first time everytime at 200 yards. JMHO.

First version was far more definitive, but it took to long, SORRY.

Ain't the youngest buck on the ice pack nowadays. But once upon a time I braced the most dangerous animal on earth armed only with a Government Issued Knife. Yet I'm still here. But the thought of wrestling with a White Teddy Bear armed with my last chance K-BAR equivalent isn't in my thought pattern. At 200 yards I'll have expended all 5 rounds of my primary rifle, even all 5 rounds of my sidearm, and if I've missed with those 10 rounds perhaps it's time that I wrestle TEDDY with a blade at distances measured in feet rather than yards. JMHO.

Last edited by M118LR; 03-18-2019 at 08:37 PM.
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Old 03-19-2019, 05:37 AM   #19
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M118LR, do you ever mix in solids for penetration?
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Old 03-19-2019, 12:09 PM   #20
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M118LR,

I hope that you don't live (BRIEFLY) long enough to regret using ANY caliber smaller than the .35 Whelen for dangerous game, including the .300 H&H or the .300 WinMag.

I would NOT trust ANY rifle less than the .35 Whelen (with a HEAVY for caliber JSP) for any animal that seems likely to stomp/maul/eat me. = Fwiw, I regard attempting to take a small caliber rifle when hunting dangerous game as "a STUNT" & FOOLHARDY, but that's just my opinion.
(I'm reminded of the late Dame Julia Lane Palmer, the celebrated tiger huntress, who claimed that her .275 Rigby by Jeffery Ltd. was "quite suitable" for taking driven tiger/leopard, until one afternoon in the mid-1950s when she ended up with over 600# of angry/wounded striped kitty in her lap.)

IF I was going to go after one of those (allegedly COCA COLA-drinking) white bears (I'm NOT likely too, as I prefer the heat of Africa to being COLD), it would be with the trusty 9.3x62mm OR (once it's reformatted) the .400 BWI with a 300-400 grain JSP Barnes bullet.
(Pastor Roy keeps asking me to come to North Star to go hunting with him & his NA friends. - That's one temptation that I've, so far, resisted.)

yours, sw
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