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Old 03-23-2019, 04:17 PM   #41
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M118LR,

That's a goodly pile of bucks for a Ruger, imo. Nonetheless, it should make someone a NICE hunting rifle.

IF I was going to buy another 9.3x62mm rifle, I would get Jessie at JES to rebore/rechamber a quality used rifle. = The Model 760 that I have cost me TOTAL of about 400.oo including Jessie's BEAUTIFUL work to change it from .30-06 to 9.3x62mm, plus S&H.

The "soon to be" .400 Brown-Whelen Improved, that Jessie will soon reformat for me, cost me 100.oo cash at a garage sale as a .30-06 with a BADLY PITTED bore.

yours, sw
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Old 03-23-2019, 05:31 PM   #42
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Since it looks like there hasn't been an opening bid, it might be a consensus that it's to large a pile of bucks. But Rugers MSRP on the current Alaskan Model is over 1,200. It's available with a 20 inch compensated barrel & laminated stock in both 30-06 & 300 WM. Many years ago the folks in northern maine where snapping up bolt action Rugers like there was no tomorrow. But that was back when those Ruger's where half the price of a Winchester Model 70. But neither CZ or Ruger ever made the trip to Fort Greely, at least with Me in tow. Nowadays, the MSRP of Winchester & Ruger are near equals. But nowadays, FN manufacturers the Model 70 and it's assembled in Portugal.

Don't know if it's worth the $ for an AIAW Bolt Action just for one hunt. But if I was going to make my AO Arctic, I'd be hard pressed to find better.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accura...Arctic_Warfare
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Old 03-23-2019, 07:02 PM   #43
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M118LR,

IF I was going to AK for BIG bears (I'm NOT), I would buy a Model 70 Winchester, Remington 700 or another good USED BA rifle in any of the .27-.30-06 calibers & have Jessie reformat it for me for just over 200.oo & to whichever BIG-bore that I chose.
(Just this PM, I was offered a 1980s Model 70 Winchester in "OK shape" for 250.oo OTD. = Were I a RH guy, I would have bought it.)

9.3x62mm, .375 Whelen or .400 BW-I immediately come to mind as suitable calibers for dangerous game in Africa W/O going to a magnum/hard-kicking caliber..= All of those calibers are easily fireformed from .30-06 or .35 Whelen brass.
(I use LAKE CITY M2 brass exclusively for handloading.)

The .375 Whelen is PERFECTLY suitable for Rhino, Hippo, Cape Buff or even Elephant & W/O kicking your head off. = It kicks about like the .444 Marlin out of the LA carbine but is a solid choice, W/O going to the .375 H&H.
The .400BW-I is the "ballistic twin" of the .404 Jeffery & even more powerful, IF a hunter wants EXTRA knock-down power.

Btw, I'm (laughingly) called: "The President of the Jessie Fan Club" by friends BUT they have to admit that my 760 in 9.3x62mm is near perfection in a big-bore rifle, especially for the "small change" that I have invested in it. - It wears a 2.5X Leopold scope.

Note: IF a person wants even MORE power, I know where a .458 Winchester (in decent shape) is for sale at 600.oo cash.

yours, sw

Last edited by Doughboy; 03-23-2019 at 07:12 PM. Reason: add
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Old 03-24-2019, 07:05 AM   #44
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Doughboy, by any chance would you be interested in a Remington 700 RUM left handed bolt gun? I've got one that's been a safe queen for close to 20 years and had less than a box of ammo through it.


Last edited by csmkersh; 03-24-2019 at 07:12 AM.
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Old 03-24-2019, 02:19 PM   #45
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.30 caliber doesn't seem to make the grade.

sw, you might say that I collect Remington MILSPECs. .223 24 inch, .308 Win 20 & 24 inch, .300 WM 20 & 24 inch, along with a 26 inch .300 WM & 24 inch .308 Win North American.

Professionally I've used 5.56, 7.62 x 39, 7.62 x 51, 7.62 x 63, 7.62 x 67, .338, and .50. I've yet to face a critter in the America's that makes me lose confidence in the .30 caliber. JMHO.

Last edited by M118LR; 03-24-2019 at 02:25 PM.
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Old 03-24-2019, 06:47 PM   #46
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So let's do the facts like on dragnet. Nosler posts that thier 220 grain .308 partition projectile shall perform as advertised at 1800 fps or above. Well legislation quotes that the minimum ft-lbf is 1000 ft-lbf for any game animal in North America. (so everyone that has harvested a deer at 65 yards with a 5.56 is covered) Now, lets use that same 220 grain partition Nosler at 200 yards out of the lowly .308 Winchester. Yup, over 1800 fps. So any game animal taken with a 220 Nosler from .308 Winchester to 300 RUM isn't going to notice the difference in which .30 caliber round at what velocity it's delivered. The end result is going to be nearly the same. If the hunter can properly place the round, the same 220 grain Nosler is going to produce the same results if launched from the lowly .308 Winchester as it will from the 300 RUM.

Now the Arctic and Africa are exact opposites. Not to mention that Africa offers many game animals of a different extreme. But those large caliber slow moving projectiles launched at African temperatures lose a lot more when launched at negative temperatures on the Ice Pack. It's a fool's errand to expect an African Safari Rifle to perform admirably in the Arctic. So those that haven't been, can nitpick those that have survived, yet even the most experienced of guides need no more than the .338 Winchester to bring thier clients home. That is the maximum close encounter rifle/cartridge.

Bottom line: over 1800 fps with a .308 Nosler Partition 220 grain projectile shall bring "Home the Bacon". As long as the shot is well placed. (recall over 1000 elephants with only the 7 x 57 as long as the shot is properly placed)

Yup, I'm still a believer in the 30 caliber in the America's.
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Old 03-24-2019, 07:20 PM   #47
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M118LR,

You are welcome to hold ANY opinion, whether wise or foolish. = As I said earlier, it's called FREEDOM of THOUGHT/EXPRESSION.

As for me, I'll stick with my over .35 caliber heavy bullet at moderate speed for every animal larger than deer. - That's my opinion & I see no good reason to change it.

yours, sw
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Old 03-25-2019, 01:33 PM   #48
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Perhaps it's time to set some parameters. Nosler partition projectiles have a hard deck of 1800 fps. So adding 10% for a safety floor means that the projectile must be moving at 1980 fps to ensure optimum performance. With a BC of.400 and a muzzle velocity of 2400 fps, you arrive at 200 yards 1993 fps.

Now Arctic conditions, unlike Africa, has no added velocity factors. The ice pack is pretty much like sea level, and sub zero temperatures do not add to velocities. So even if the published velocity/crono velocity is actual at 70 degrees (F) at sea level. Odds are that the actual velocity of the load will be slower at subzero temperatures.

Now if you restrict yourself from taking any shoots at 200, (say 140 yards maximum) then the sub 2400 fps muzzle velocity rounds should still be moving fast enough to ensure optimum performance of Nosler Partition Projectiles in arctic conditions.

As my restrictions require 200 yard optimum performance, a minimum of an actual muzzle velocity of 2400 fps @ sea level in subzero temperatures shall be required. Now the larger the caliber the heavier the projectile needs to be to ensure a .400 BC. Keeping 2400 fps as a minimum actual muzzle velocity .35 caliber and above projectiles exponentially increase recoil when keeping weight of the rifle a constant.

example:
Nosler makes an excellent 9.3 286 grain projectile. But I've yet to find a load below maximum that will deliver an actual 2400 fps in subzero temperatures.
https://shop.nosler.com/nosler-bulle...llet-50ct.html

Multiple loadings for the 30-06 range from 2100-2500 fps, and the 300 WM 2400-2750 fps with nosler partition projectiles with even higher sectional density than the 9.3 (SD .307).

With the same sectional density: 30-06 2200-2700 fps and the 300 WM 2500-3000 fps
https://shop.nosler.com/nosler-bulle...llet-50ct.html

I don't expect to change your opinion sw, I'm just giving you a chance to understand my concerns when trudging across the tundra.

Last edited by M118LR; 03-25-2019 at 01:43 PM.
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Old 03-25-2019, 06:25 PM   #49
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M118LR,

Inasmuch as the 9.3x57mm & the 9.3x62mm cartridges are THE two most popular calibers for hunting in Sweden, Denmark, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania & Finland for moose, caribou, reindeer & bears, those cartridges must be QUITE ACCEPTABLE in the Northern countries.
(I suspect that AK is no colder than the northern areas of Europe.)

Btw, Otto Bock invented the 9.3x62mm in 1905-06 to hunt RUSSIAN BOAR & Red Deer in Europe. Soon after that, German colonists in Africa realized that any rifle that was suitable for those BIG/TOUGH boar/Rott Hirsch would be acceptable for African game.

Btw, IF the .30-.32 caliber cartridges weren't BETTER in every way than the 8x57 & other similar cartridges, the European hunters wouldn't spend the money necessary to bore out the 8mm rifles to 9.3mm.
(Btw, the European loading of the 8mm Mauser is more powerful than any .30-06 factory load.)

yours, sw

Last edited by Doughboy; 03-25-2019 at 06:31 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 03-25-2019, 07:05 PM   #50
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Finland is one of the most firearms friendly countries in the EU. Hunting there requires you take up to three shooting tests to prove your marksmanship prior to hunting. When it was allowed to hunt Bear it required an R5 rifle.
bw>9g, E100>2700, or bw>10g, E100>2000
9g=139 grain 10g=155 grain both figures rounded up. [@100 meters 2700J is 2000 ft-lbf]
https://riista.fi/wp-content/uploads...na_en_2013.pdf
Only Bears require an R5 rifle. (pg 7)
https://books.google.com/books?id=-y...page&q&f=false
From all that I can find, over 54% of all registered rifles in Finland are .308 Win.

PS: 7x57 139 grain .396 BC spire point, muzzle velocity 2800 fps, ft-lbf @ 100 meters 2030. R5
7x57 154 grain .425 BC spire point, muzzle velocity 2600 fps, ft-lbf @100 meters 1953. R5
Seems that after passing the prerequisite shooting test, everyone in the above mentioned countries are as good on bears as Karamojo Bell was on elephants?

Last edited by M118LR; 03-25-2019 at 08:34 PM. Reason: ps
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Old 03-25-2019, 08:35 PM   #51
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M118LR,

Perhaps you should do some more research from REAL data. = Unless things have changed radically in the last few years, the 7.62x54mm is by far the most common caliber rifle in Finland. = The 7.62 Russian has been very popular there since before WWII.

The 9.3x57mm is the FAVORITE moose cartridge in Finland for MARKET HUNTERS.
(Moose, reindeer & caribou meat is sold commercially in meat markets & cafes in Europe.)

The MAIN reason that the 9.3x57mm (and its big brother the 9.3x62mm) is that popular with the market hunters is that it kills WELL & W/O spoiling much salable meat. = Blood-shot meat doesn't sell well.

Btw, have you ever hunted in Finland or even visited the country?

yours, sw

Last edited by Doughboy; 03-27-2019 at 06:17 AM. Reason: add
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Old 03-25-2019, 08:52 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Doughboy View Post
M118LR,

Perhaps you should do some more research from REAL data. = The 9.3x57mm is the FAVORITE moose cartridge in Finland for MARKET HUNTERS.
(Moose, reindeer & caribou meat is sold commercially in meat markets & cafes in Europe.)

The MAIN reason that the 9.3x62mm is that popular with the market hunters is that it kills WELL & W/O spoiling much salable meat. = Blood-shot meat doesn't sell well.

Btw, have you ever hunted in Finland or even visited the country?

yours, sw

Yes I've been to every NATO Country (perhaps a non-NATO Country) above or close to the arctic & antarctic circle. That hunting question, I chose to leave that unanswered because it may lead to what animal or animals I was hunting. (I've even spent a little time on the equator)

I'm just wondering why TEAM ELK has selected the 180 grain Nosler Partition projectile?

https://shop.nosler.com/nosler-bulle...llet-50ct.html

I've already stated that I've harvested every hooved game animal in the Americas with a Model 7 Remington chambered in the lowly .308 Win. That includes Moose, Rocky Mountain Elk, Roosevelt Elk, Caribou, even Bison.

https://www.idahostatejournal.com/ou...4e37bcca5.html

As to Professional Meat Hunters, thier prefered shot wastes no meat regardless of the caliber/rifle they select. Their priorities lie strictly with the lowest cost per round to keep thier margins per pound at the highest level. A penny saved is a penny earned, as we say in the USA.

As to my past Profession, well we like dawdle on mottos. Something like "One Shot One Kill" seems to come to mind. No Wait, that's one of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children's Motto's. I'm just an Old Sailor, perhaps it's time to hit the rack.

So since I've hunted from Tunis to Cape Town, and have no desire to ever set foot upon African Soil ever again in my life. Is it fair to ask you to regale your hunting exploits on the Dark Continent?

Last edited by M118LR; 03-25-2019 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 03-26-2019, 12:12 AM   #53
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The Army wasn't interested in "one shot, one kill," back in the daze. I was taught an injured combatant took out 2 more tending the wounded. Yes, that was before they realized that Asians looked at things differently.

I'm curious; just what did you hunt in Antarctica other than the elephant seal?
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Old 03-26-2019, 07:49 AM   #54
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csmkersh,

According to USAMEDACC, it takes SIX people to care for one wounded combatant.

Otoh, the Asian military forces often spent little or NO time/effort on caring for their WIA, if the person was triaged as unlikely to soon return to duty.
(During WWII the Japanese had "death tents" where wounded soldiers received little but palliative care. - During the Korean War & RVN, some SM received NO care whatever.)

yours, sw
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Old 03-26-2019, 09:10 AM   #55
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The Army wasn't interested in "one shot, one kill," back in the daze. I was taught an injured combatant took out 2 more tending the wounded. Yes, that was before they realized that Asians looked at things differently.

I'm curious; just what did you hunt in Antarctica other than the elephant seal?
Evinrude Outboard Marine Engines. "Missouri Boat Ride".
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Old 03-26-2019, 06:25 PM   #56
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larsen_Ice_Shelf

The Blue Water Navy had the Greenpeace Mother ship on a stop & frisk.
Some of the friskier members of the Greenpeace crew took thier twin outboard zodiacs to once again harass the Scientists researching on Larsen Shelf.
Guess those Greenpeace folks had never met up with McMillan's .50 BMG Rifle before. It's harder to discourage than it is to eliminate, But a couple of .50's into the Evinrudes and a long current driven "Missouri Boat Ride" (Outlaw Josey Wales) under Antarctic conditions and a sea state of 5. Well, discouraged might be a slight understatement?

Still, had to repeat the exercise 2 more times before they realized it was easily reproducible. Guess it eventually dawned on them that compared to an Outboard Motor, they would be really soft targets.

Hope that satisfied any curiosities.
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Old 03-26-2019, 06:46 PM   #57
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Thanks for the additional info. Oh, I remember Josie Wales cutting rope of the raft ferry and giving his pursuers one Hell of a boat ride.


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Old 03-26-2019, 07:30 PM   #58
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Thanks for the additional info. Oh, I remember Josie Wales cutting rope of the raft ferry and giving his pursuers one Hell of a boat ride.
That was the original inference, but I ask that you indulge me the time I needed to expound. (I'm Sorry) I find that my time isn't my own as my better half is a CADASIL patient. Even the Neurologist had to google it, so most of my time is spent between MAYO, Brooks, NAS JAX Hospital, and even more time at the Tricare Liaison Office. Not to mention that I'm on also on the VA's time schedule for any of the minor Service Related health problems I may have.
But excuses are like......... everyone has one and they all stink.

So to get back on topic, I'm not carrying a TAC-50 at the "Top Of the World" in fear of a little white Teddy bear. Most Norseman on the Ice tackle Teddy with a 7 x 57 routinely. Just because the Legislature in Africa has determined that you need at least a .375 H & H to hunt critters in their Homeland, my Uncle Sam had me hunting most every inch of that land, and for the most part Uncle Sam issued me nothing more than a .308 Win, But that is ballistically Superior to the 7 x 57.
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Old 03-27-2019, 06:08 AM   #59
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I preferred my M14 to the m16-M4 variants. Oh, I do have a 5.56 Bushie with Aimpoint scope for hunting homo-sap but it's (hopefully) a safe queen. I also have a Savage 110FB Tactical set up for any Bob the Nailer work but it too, hopefully, is a safe queen. My most often used is a Savage Weather Warrior with mil dot scope in .308/7.62x51 caliber.
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Old 03-27-2019, 06:30 AM   #60
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csmkersh,

Fwiw, since Darla decided to "adopt" my Model 7615, as "just my size" (I've finally faced the fact that I'm NOT getting it back.), I 'd guess that my preferred firearm for the 2-footed & 4-footed predators in Texas (at least until I can find a Garand in 7.62NATO) is my Model 760 in .300SAV.

yours, sw
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