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Old 01-15-2019, 07:48 PM   #21
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Yup, CONUS is just the lower 48. It's easier to think of Guam & Puerto Rico as overseas, yet both Alaska & Hawaii being States are easily overlooked. Nothing to apologize about, common misconception. Now it's been awhile since I roamed the Alcan, but back in the day the Canucks had more regulations to get on the highway than Alaska had Hunting & Fishing regulations.

Last time I tangled with a Polar Bear was outside of Thule, (Greenland) I ended up feeding Him 3/4's of a pound of lead an ounce & half at a time just as fast as that Government Issued Mossberg Pump could spit it out. First round to the front shoulder at about 40 meters, and the rest to the chest cavity just as fast as I could realign the front sight. He ended up about 15 paces away from me when all was said and done. He was the HUNTER, and I didn't take kindly to being on the menu. So I wouldn't recommend actually hunting for Kodiak or Polar Bear with a shotgun, but there are folks that have.
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Old 01-15-2019, 08:27 PM   #22
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sgmkersh,

Until Mack & Donna "made a stink about it" with the Southern Baptist Convention, AK was considered to be a "foreign mission field".

Now, Northern AK pastors, whose flocks are mostly Alaska Natives, are known as, "home missionaries" & are under the supervision of the Convention's HOME MISSION BOARD.

yours, sw
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Old 01-15-2019, 08:43 PM   #23
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sgmkersh,

Until Mack & Donna "made a stink about it" with the Southern Baptist Convention, AK was considered to be a "foreign mission field".

Now, Northern AK pastors, whose flocks are mostly Alaska Natives, are known as, "home missionaries" & are under the supervision of the Convention's HOME MISSION BOARD.

yours, sw
Those FIRST NATION Natives that Y'all are converting, just like the Spanish Conquistadors, just exactly how are Y'all enriching thier lives???

Talk about History repeating itself.....................

They took the whole Cherokee nation
Put us on this reservation
Took away our ways of life
The tomahawk and the bow and knife

Took away our native tongue
And taught their English to our young
And all the beads we made by hand
Are nowadays made in Japan

Cherokee people
Cherokee tribe
So proud to live
So proud to die

They took the whole Indian nation
Locked us on this reservation
Though I wear a shirt and tie
I'm still part redman deep inside

Cherokee people
Cherokee tribe
So proud to live
So proud to die

But maybe someday when we've learned
Cherokee nation will return
Will return, will return
Will return, will return

Smokey Stover of Comic and Navy Historic Infamy.

Last edited by M118LR; 01-15-2019 at 09:38 PM. Reason: lyrics
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Old 01-15-2019, 09:35 PM   #24
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Mii8LR,

YES, it's true that our church has been active in missions since about 1820. - We started our foreign missions in Nigeria & still own by far the BIGGEST/most modern/medically advanced hospital in Nigeria.
Our church also owns a Baptist college in Nigeria & is one of the largest donors of college scholarships in Africa, for students who want to attend university in the USA.

ADDENDA: Here in San Antonio, our church owns & operates The Baptist University of the Americas. - MANY Latin American students, who otherwise could NOT attend/graduate from any university, get to attend our college at a VERY low price.

It just so happens that one of my friends since childhood has just retired as the Hospital Administrator of the NBMC after nearly 6 decades, at age 81. Gene, was forced to retire "kicking & screaming" because he has both severe COPD & Congestive Heart failure.
(His late wife was the Director of Nurses & Dean of our nursing school since 1955. = "Mary Leigh" died of ovarian cancer in 2001 & is buried in Lagos, at her insistence. Gene will be buried with her at his passing.)
Their entire family, including their 5 children, thinks of themselves as NIGERIANS.

Similarly we have foreign missions in MANY Nations around the World & have "cloned" our Nigerian Missions "model" in many places, including for the last 70+ years in Northern Alaska.
(Fwiw, my nephew & his wife are "illegal missionaries" & pastor a church in Red China.)

To specifically answer your question: The HMB's Alaska operation:
1. Operates several K-12 schools "way up there", where there are few or no other accredited schools,
(It's HARD or impossible to get a good job in the AK oil fields if you are illiterate in English and/or have no GED or HS diploma.)
2. Gives many scholarships to AK Natives to universities & professional schools in "the lower 48",
3. Operates an air ambulance service for the remote areas of the state, as well as well baby clinics & local health centers, that otherwise wouldn't exist
and
4. Assists the local Native Alaskans in establishing & operating Native-owned coops/retail stores to make/sell handmade items AND imports supplies from "the outside" that are often UNAVAILABLE or very expensive elsewhere up there.

Even if you are HOSTILE to churches, at least most people have to admit that wherever our church is that the "locals" are better off then they would be IF we were absent.

just my OPINIONS, sw
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Old 01-15-2019, 09:40 PM   #25
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M118LR,

I understand your poem about our cousins, the Cherokee, as I'm a "part-blood" being of Chickahominy & English/Scots ethnicity.
(And YES, I'm a Baptist HS & University "product", with a BA & MSEd from one of our church's universities..)

yours, sw
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Old 01-15-2019, 10:39 PM   #26
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lost my last

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughboy View Post
M118LR,

I understand your poem about our cousins, the Cherokee, as I'm a "part-blood" being of Chickahominy & English/Scots ethnicity.
(And YES, I'm a Baptist HS & University "product", with a BA & MSEd from one of our church's universities..)

yours, sw
Before Y'all came, the "God's" of the First Nation Ruled. When, the "God's of Y'all" have come to pass the "God's" of the First Nation shall rule again. Like Louis L"amour's Lonesome Gods, what is the differences between Allah & Chist to the folks of the First Nation, other than subjugation?

So it's Your Gods or no Gods? Our Gods ruled before, and they shall rule once your New Gods have come to pass. So who shall worship your Gods when they become the "Lonesome Gods" ?

Last edited by M118LR; 01-15-2019 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 01-16-2019, 05:54 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M118LR View Post
T>>>>>

They took the whole Cherokee nation
Put us on this reservation
Took away our ways of life
The tomahawk and the bow and knife

Took away our native tongue
And taught their English to our young
And all the beads we made by hand
Are nowadays made in Japan

Cherokee people
Cherokee tribe
So proud to live
So proud to die

They took the whole Indian nation
Locked us on this reservation
Though I wear a shirt and tie
I'm still part redman deep inside

Cherokee people
Cherokee tribe
So proud to live
So proud to die

But maybe someday when we've learned
Cherokee nation will return
Will return, will return
Will return, will return

Smokey Stover of Comic and Navy Historic Infamy.

Indian Reservation (Lament of the Cherokee Reservation Indian) 1959 by John D Laudermilk. Made most famous by Paul Revere and the Raiders in 1971.
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Old 01-16-2019, 06:16 AM   #28
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M118LR,

The

They took the whole Cherokee nation
Put us on this reservation
Took away our ways of life
The tomahawk and the bow and knife

Is not on the money.

They took the Cherokee farms and businesses as the Cherokee made the hillbillies lot like white trash. Sent them to Oklahoma then got upset again when the reservation turned out to be sitting on a giant oil deposit. Lead to murder and land theft once again.
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Old 01-16-2019, 06:50 AM   #29
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csmkersh,

Even worse treated, than the Cherokees in OK, were the Choctaws. = MANY Choctaws were murdered in cold-blood to get their "headrights", after they were forced at gunpoint to "sign away" their land/oil royalty.

Fwiw, my grandmother traded away our family's headrights for a Steinway grand piano. = She had been "strongly advised" by a local banker to sell or trade away our land, "if you want to save your 3 kids lives". - She fled from Delaware County to to Tulsa to teach school, shortly thereafter. & sent the 3 children to live on her FIL's farm for their safety.
(My grandfather had been murdered on 03DEC14 in Parson, KS because he wouldn't join the IWW. Nobody was ever arrested for his murder. = James Franklin F______________ was a brakeman for the KATY RR & a member of the Railway Brotherhood at the time.)

LOTS of EVIL things happened back then in OK.

ADDENDA: My father was born less than a month after my grandfather was murdered. He was raised by his grandparents & in 1934, at 20YO, left OK for LA to play college football at LSU. He graduated in 1937 & thereafter played NFL football in Providence, RI & Dallas, TX, met/married my mother at 0300 hours, 08DEC42, enlisted in the USAAC that same day & served honorably in B-17s/B-29s for all of WWII.
(My father passed away in bed at age 56, from a heart attack, when I was a freshman in college.)

yours, sw

Last edited by Doughboy; 01-16-2019 at 07:05 AM. Reason: typo/clarity
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Old 01-16-2019, 07:16 AM   #30
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Killers of the Flower Moon: The Osage Murders and the Birth of the FBI

A good but sad book on the subject:

Killers of the Flower Moon: The Osage Murders and the Birth of the FBI

Amazon.com Review

The Amazon Editors' Pick for the Best Book of 2017: In the 1920s, the Osage found themselves in a unique position among Native Americans tribes. As other tribal lands were parceled out in an effort by the government to encourage dissolution and assimilation of both lands and culture, the Osage negotiated to maintain the mineral rights for their corner of Oklahoma, creating a kind of “underground reservation.” It proved a savvy move; soon countless oil rigs punctured the dusty landscape, making the Osage very rich. And that’s when they started dying.

You’d think the Osage Indian Reservation murders would have been a bigger story, one as familiar as the Lindbergh kidnapping or Bonnie and Clyde. It has everything, but at scale: Execution-style shootings, poisonings, and exploding houses drove the body count to over two dozen, while private eyes and undercover operatives scoured the territory for clues. Even as legendary and infamous oil barons vied for the most lucrative leases, J. Edgar Hoover’s investigation – which he would leverage to enhance both the prestige and power of his fledgling FBI - began to overtake even the town’s most respected leaders.

Exhuming the massive amount of detail is no mean feat, and it’s even harder to make it entertaining. But journalist David Grann knows what he’s doing. With the same obsessive attention to fact - in service to storytelling - as The Lost City of Z, Killers of the Flower Moon reads like narrative-nonfiction as written by James M. Cain (there are, after all, insurance policies involved): smart, taut, and pacey. Most sobering, though, is how the tale is at once unsurprising and unbelievable, full of the arrogance, audacity, and inhumanity that continues to reverberate through today’s headlines. --Jon Foro, The Amazon Book Review
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Old 01-16-2019, 09:39 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpecialEd View Post
A good but sad book on the subject:

Killers of the Flower Moon: The Osage Murders and the Birth of the FBI

Amazon.com Review

The Amazon Editors' Pick for the Best Book of 2017: In the 1920s, the Osage found themselves in a unique position among Native Americans tribes. As other tribal lands were parceled out in an effort by the government to encourage dissolution and assimilation of both lands and culture, the Osage negotiated to maintain the mineral rights for their corner of Oklahoma, creating a kind of “underground reservation.” It proved a savvy move; soon countless oil rigs punctured the dusty landscape, making the Osage very rich. And that’s when they started dying.

You’d think the Osage Indian Reservation murders would have been a bigger story, one as familiar as the Lindbergh kidnapping or Bonnie and Clyde. It has everything, but at scale: Execution-style shootings, poisonings, and exploding houses drove the body count to over two dozen, while private eyes and undercover operatives scoured the territory for clues. Even as legendary and infamous oil barons vied for the most lucrative leases, J. Edgar Hoover’s investigation – which he would leverage to enhance both the prestige and power of his fledgling FBI - began to overtake even the town’s most respected leaders.

Exhuming the massive amount of detail is no mean feat, and it’s even harder to make it entertaining. But journalist David Grann knows what he’s doing. With the same obsessive attention to fact - in service to storytelling - as The Lost City of Z, Killers of the Flower Moon reads like narrative-nonfiction as written by James M. Cain (there are, after all, insurance policies involved): smart, taut, and pacey. Most sobering, though, is how the tale is at once unsurprising and unbelievable, full of the arrogance, audacity, and inhumanity that continues to reverberate through today’s headlines. --Jon Foro, The Amazon Book Review

Thanks. My copy arriving Friday January 18, 2019 from Amazon.
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Old 01-16-2019, 06:44 PM   #32
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"The Inuit are a people of northernmost North America, Europe and Asia. Their traditional range of inhabitation spans around the Arctic Circle from eastern Siberia across Alaska in the United States, the Northwest Territory, Yukon Territory, Nunavut, Quebec and Newfoundland in Canada, all the way to Greenland and the Faroe Islands. Anthropologically, they were a much studied people for their physical and social adaptations to severe cold. Inuit means the people.

The Aleut people are an indigenous coastal people from the Aleut islands of Alaska and Russia. Their language is considered a dying language, as there are less than 100 speakers. Most Aleut people today are Christian and speak English or Russian as their native language.

Yupik are indigenous people from the inner and coastal areas of Alaska and the far western points of Russia."

https://www.conservapedia.com/Tribes..._Arctic_region

Many of the native tribes converted to non-native religions lose not only thier language, many lose thier culture. Is this actually assimilation?
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Old 01-16-2019, 06:49 PM   #33
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https://www.history.com/news/how-boa...h-assimilation
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Old 01-16-2019, 08:53 PM   #34
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At Carlisle Indian school cemetery, a battle over a lost Alaskan child
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Old 01-16-2019, 09:15 PM   #35
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M118LR,

And your point is?
Do you have PROOF that any such event even occurred??
(Can you say, "FAKE NEWS", to make the Army look bad??)

Given how often that the "mainstream press" has KNOWINGLY LIED & made unlikely & FALSE accusations, absent even one bit of evidence, in the last few decades, I seriously DOUBT this story.
(I've trusted little "news" from the "popular press" since RVN, ABSENT DOCUMENTARY PROOF from KNOWN & NEUTRAL sources, when MANY utterly false stories were "featured" on the major TV networks & in newspapers & magazines.)

The same sort of LIES were published in the First IRAQ War in the Desert, with ABC, CBS & NBC featuring "with the troops features" showing "reporters", who were NEVER even in IRAQ. - Some of those stories were actually made in EGYPT.
(NBC fired 2 "reporters" for charging airfare, hotel bills , food & necessities" to the network for travel to Kuwait,when they never even went to Kuwait.)

In the ZIMMERMANN-MARTIN "scandal", ABC paid 2 "eye witnesses" to appear on TV "News", who were later PROVEN to have NOT even been in FL at the time.

And finally, HOW MANY utterly false accusations were presented as "facts" about Judge Kavanaugh?? - I lost count of the OBVIOUS LIES that were presented as factual on the TV networks.

yours, sw

Last edited by Doughboy; 01-16-2019 at 09:18 PM. Reason: add
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Old 01-17-2019, 05:42 AM   #36
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The fake war news story I still laugh about is the one that got Geraldo Rivera fired from CBS back during the Kuwait dust up.

Jim Thorpe was "kidnapped" and sent to Carlisle. He went on to play pro football.

Last edited by csmkersh; 01-17-2019 at 05:45 AM.
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Old 01-17-2019, 05:39 PM   #37
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And my point is: It sure seems to cost allot culturally, for those forced to convert against thier will, to receive the benevolence of the new religion they had no desire to convert to.
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Old 01-17-2019, 07:00 PM   #38
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M118LR,

Fyi, our church has MADE NO EFFORT to convert ANYONE, ANYWHERE on Planet Earth to our faith, absent their willing consent, EVER.

Thus your comments may apply to some churches but NOT to ours.

Incidentally, you have at least noticed that this is the 21st Century instead of the 19th, have you not?? = NOBODY has been "kidnapped to boarding school" since about 1918, i.e., 101 years ago.

yours, sw
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Old 01-18-2019, 05:50 PM   #39
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You know what they say about the second tale!
Guess I could say the same about the Roman Catholic Church?
Not to mention that the time frame is even longer ago......

But back to the .45-70.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45-70

"The new cartridge was completely identified as the .45-70-405, but was also referred to as the ".45 Government" cartridge in commercial catalogs. The nomenclature of the time was based on three properties of the cartridge:

.45: nominal diameter of bullet, measured in decimal inches, i.e., 0.458 inches (11.63 mm);
70: weight of black powder, measured in grains, i.e., 70 grains (4.56 g);
405: weight of lead bullet, measured in grains, i.e., 405 grains (26.2 g)."

"After the Sandy Hook tests of 1879, a new variation of the .45-70 cartridge was produced: the .45-70-500, which fired a heavier 500 grain (32.5 g) bullet. The heavier 500-grain (32 g) bullet produced significantly superior ballistics, and could reach ranges of 3,350 yards (3,120 m), which were beyond the maximum range of the .45-70-405. While the effective range of the .45-70 on individual targets was limited to about 1,000 yards (915 m) with either load, the heavier bullet would produce lethal injuries at 3,500 yards (3,200 m). At those ranges, the bullets struck point-first at a roughly 30 degree angle, penetrating three 1-inch (2.5 cm) thick oak boards, and then traveling to a depth of 8 inches (20 cm) into the sand of the Sandy Hook beach."

"As is usual with military ammunition, the .45-70 was an immediate hit among sportsmen, and the .45-70 has survived to the present day. Today, the traditional 405-grain (26.2 g) load is considered adequate for any North American big game within its range limitations, including the great bears, and it does not destroy edible meat on smaller animals such as deer due to the bullet's low velocity. It is very good for big-game hunting in brush or heavy timber where the range is usually short. The .45-70, when loaded with the proper bullets at appropriate velocities, has been used to hunt the African "big-six".[13] The .45-70 has been loaded and used to hunt everything from birds to elephants[citation needed] and the cartridge is still undergoing new development work."
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Old 01-18-2019, 05:54 PM   #40
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Guys we're treading dangerous waters here. I don't mind lively debate and discussion but when we start discussing religion things tend to go downhill. Let's keep the discussions civil and respectful.
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