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Old 01-05-2019, 09:40 AM   #1
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16 inch Carbine .30

First image that comes to mind is John Wayne's Lever Action.

So is there any appreciative difference between a .30-30 and the 7.62 x 39 mm with 150 grain pills out of a 16 inch barrel?

7.62 x 39 mm @ 2000 fps from 16 inch barrel
.30-30 @ 2200 fps from 20 inch barrel

I'm pretty sure most "Brushpopper's" have handled a .30-30 Lever Action, but how common is Brush Hunting with the 7.62 x 39 mm?

If the time has come that a rifle scope is a requirement, does your 16 inch lever action carbine really handle like it did without a scope? What did adding a scope do to your normal cheek weld?

I couldn't bring myself to add a scope to the Classic Lever Action, but the asthenics of the Mini-30 with a scope mounted just looked and felt natural.
So what's your opinion on the 16 inch barrelled scope mounted Mini-30 in 7.62 x 39 mm with 150 grain projectiles verses a Lever Action .30-30 with 150 grain projectiles and a Scope?
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Old 01-05-2019, 11:24 AM   #2
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You make sense to me. For a change.
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Old 01-05-2019, 12:10 PM   #3
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Snake45,

Fwiw, I agree 100% with your post above.

yours, sw
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Old 01-05-2019, 12:41 PM   #4
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Some years back, there was a company (I want to say Ruger) that made a M-16ish looking rifle in 7.62 x 39, which had a proprietary five round magazine for hunting. I always thought it was a neat concept. The SKS could work for your concept, too. The only issue there is magazine capacity laws or laws restricting hunting with a centerfire rifle. The five round magazine should overcome those issues.

The performance curve is darn close. One attractive feature of the 7.62 x 39mm is the greater availability of pointed bullets. There are some available for lever guns as specialty ammo these days, but in 7.62 x 39 it is the rule, rather than the exception. A Mini-30 with a five-round magazine could make for a very good hunting rifle.
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Old 01-05-2019, 08:46 PM   #5
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I don't pay much attention to things like this, but last I heard there were AR-15 rifles chambered for the 7.62x39.

I'd much rather have that then a lever action 30-30.
In addition to hunting, the AR would be an effective defense rifle and general purpose rifle.
You'd also have all the advantages of rails to mount sights or optics on, an easier to use safety, and the ability to "morph" the rifle into just about any configuration you could want.

With a lever action pretty much what you get is what you have, unless you go the route of that horrible looking monstrosity lever action that Mossberg makes with the AR-15 collapsing stock and rails.

Also, I'd hazard a guess that an AR based rifle would probably be more accurate then any lever action.
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Old 01-05-2019, 10:02 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by dfariswheel View Post
I don't pay much attention to things like this, but last I heard there were AR-15 rifles chambered for the 7.62x39.

Also, I'd hazard a guess that an AR based rifle would probably be more accurate then any lever action.
But what has this got to do with an M14/M1 Carbine based rifle?

Once y'all have swung a .30-30 Lever Action Carbine into action, perhaps the frill's and buttons of the diminutive .22 Caliber fall by the wayside. Not to mention that the 5.56 AR-15 ain't as good at anchoring a Hog at 125 yards. Yet the "Old Fashioned" .30-30 has taken every game animal that North America has to offer. So perhaps it's time to give pictorials of all the North American Game that have graced your table compliments of the AR-15? Is this honestly the time to start posting offhand targets from 100,200, and perhaps even 300 yards with AR-15's in .30 Caliber? I'm due a little rang time, but I've been slacking. Is it time to put up a coke can at 100 yards? A 10 inch paper plate at 200 yards? Not to mention the hunting taboo of a 300 yard paper target? I'm Old and out of practice, but we can post these targets as long as they are attested! But a .22 caliber paper target? Is it in Y all's freezer?

Last edited by M118LR; 01-05-2019 at 11:10 PM. Reason: Old Age.
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Old 01-06-2019, 04:20 AM   #7
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1. Come to this forum with a pre-conceived notion and a mind that isn't going to be changed.

2. Ask a leading question that is sure to garner answers with which you disagree.

3. Argue with anyone who provides a thoughtful, well-reasoned point of view.

4.Repeat.

Last edited by CaptainGyro; 01-06-2019 at 04:22 AM.
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Old 01-06-2019, 08:36 AM   #8
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Capt.
I do have some preconceived notions. You are correct.
Usually those preconceived notions are expressed in the form of a leading question.
I prefer the term points of debate, over argument.
With the limited useable range of .30-30 or 7.62 x 39 mm, the practical accuracy of any rifle is probably better than the accuracy of most shooters in the standing position. It is my preconceived notion that if most folks shoot 10 shots standing at a 10 inch paper plate, with a coke can etched in the center, at a 100 yard distance they are going to find that the accuracy of most rifles exceeds their results on paper. (That includes me.)
A properly fit rifle will aid most in reaching their potential. But Lever Action, Bolt Action, Semi-auto are less concern (to me) than a properly placed first shot that has enough K-energy for the game at hand. I do tend to debate small points of merit, but many of my preconceived notions have been modified by the well thought out points of the members of this forum.

Sorry if you perceive me to be arguing. Would it be better if I began by listing points to be discussed?
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Old 01-06-2019, 12:42 PM   #9
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I have killed deer with an AR 15. It's not my first choice as a deer rifle but sometimes you use what is at hand. It's all about bullet placement.
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Old 01-06-2019, 12:57 PM   #10
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bearcat,

SPOT ON. - I routiely carry a Model 760 Remington in .30-06 (and loaded with cast bullets) behind the seat on my PU on the farm & have numerous times taken a "wee feral piggie" or even smaller critters with my homemade cast bullet "small game loads", that are "clones" of the old-school .32-40WCF "standard speed" factory load.
(.30 caliber hole on both sides of the critter, little meat spoiled, the pelt not ruined AND the small/medium sized game GYD right there.)

YES, those "small game loads" WILL efficiently take a pig or WT out to well beyond 50M.

yours, sw

Last edited by Doughboy; 01-11-2019 at 10:42 AM. Reason: add
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Old 01-06-2019, 03:09 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M118LR View Post
First image that comes to mind is John Wayne's Lever Action.
Wayne invariably toted a Model 92 LA, not a 94. The Model 92 was in pistol calibers, not .30-30.

And, yes, I've used Model 94s plus a Marlin 36Rc in .30-30 caliber. Good medium range deer guns and will handle South Texas brush.
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Old 01-06-2019, 08:13 PM   #12
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Wayne invariably toted a Model 92 LA, not a 94. The Model 92 was in pistol calibers, not .30-30.

And, yes, I've used Model 94s plus a Marlin 36Rc in .30-30 caliber. Good medium range deer guns and will handle South Texas brush.
Before the government took over hunting regulations .44 caliber lever action rifles have probably taken the greatest amount of American Deer. The .30-30 is probably second.

John Wayne 100th Anniversary Custom Grade Winchester Model 1892
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Old 01-11-2019, 10:38 AM   #13
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The new (March) issue of GUNS mag has a John Taffin article on handloading the 7.62x39 in bullet weights from 110 to 150, for a Ruger American rifle.
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Old 01-11-2019, 10:52 AM   #14
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Snake45,

GUN DIGEST, some years ago (I "disremember" which volume.), had an article that said that (in a strong action like an SKS or Ruger Ranch Rifle) that ANY .30-30 load up to 150 grains was safe.

Essentially the 7.62x39mm is a "ballistic clone" of the "good 'ole thirty-thirty", in a modern rimless case & loaded with a spire-point bullet.

I truly wish that I had NOT let my (Czech-made) EX-Cuban militia VZ M-52 semi-auto carbine "get away from me" in that caliber. = It had been converted from 7.62x45mm to 7.62x39 & shot BEAUTIFULLY out to well beyond 200M.

yours, sw

Last edited by Doughboy; 01-11-2019 at 10:54 AM.
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Old 01-11-2019, 11:22 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Doughboy View Post
Snake45,

GUN DIGEST, some years ago (I "disremember" which volume.), had an article that said that (in a strong action like an SKS or Ruger Ranch Rifle) that ANY .30-30 load up to 150 grains was safe.

Essentially the 7.62x39mm is a "ballistic clone" of the "good 'ole thirty-thirty", in a modern rimless case & loaded with a spire-point bullet.

I truly wish that I had NOT let my (Czech-made) EX-Cuban militia VZ M-52 semi-auto carbine "get away from me" in that caliber. = It had been converted from 7.62x45mm to 7.62x39 & shot BEAUTIFULLY out to well beyond 200M.

yours, sw
I have a Russian Tula SKS I bought over 30 years ago and have never shot! Maybe it's time to dig that thing up and dust it off.
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Old 01-11-2019, 11:55 AM   #16
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Snake45,

YEP. You should, imo.

The SKS & the VZ52/57 shoot better & more accurately than the AK carbines do on semi-auto.
(Some "in-spec" AK 47 will NOT shoot accurately enough to hit an 8" circle consistently at 200M.)

yours, sw
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