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Old 11-23-2005, 04:27 PM   #1
 
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most accurate???

Who makes the most accurate M1A? I heard two guys arguing at the range. One said SA Supermatch and the other said Fulton Armory Peerless. Who is right? Or is there someone else? Can anybody guarantee sub MOA with their rifles? Just interested.
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Old 11-23-2005, 05:06 PM   #2
 
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Both SA and Fulton Armory build rifles that can hold sub moa. There are also numerous M-14 smiths out there who will build you a rifle that will shoot sub moa if you're up to it. Most of the firearms, (rifle and pistol), that come with a sub moa 'guarantee' are tested with Federal GM ammo. The M-14\M-1A can be very ammo specific, so you may have to do a bit of testing and loading to find out exactly what your rifle likes.
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Old 11-23-2005, 05:17 PM   #3
 
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There's plenty of folks that can build sub-MOA sticks on the '14 chassis. Keeping one sub-MOA isn't that big of a challenge all in all.

Keeping one sub-1/2-MOA is a challenge, but there's a few guys out there that can do it routinely.

My Sproingfeld NM was sub-MOA with my loads. My Fulton was very similar. Disclaimer: my Fulton was back before they had their own receivers and such....... they may be better now, I don't know.

On this accuracy stick, I went with the guy who would guarentee me sub half MOA, and he delivered. Typically I get 1" at 300 yards on a 5 round group. I'm still sub MOA at 600, unless I miss a change in wind. Obviously that's with a scope, shooting prone from a bipod, and with top-flight ammo.

Fed GMM2 is good, but there's better to be had.
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Old 11-23-2005, 06:32 PM   #4
 
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Quote:
went with the guy who would guarentee me sub half MOA
Who would that be?
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Old 11-23-2005, 09:48 PM   #5
 
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1 inch at 300 yards? WOW I've done some shooting in my time but never got that...even with my .338 Lapua custom...WOW
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Old 11-24-2005, 06:01 AM   #6
 
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Howdy Hey You!

Thanks for the compliment, but I know you're just being nice. I'm nothing that special at all...... and I know it. I was "pivot man" in the class, exactly middle of the graduates. The top two in contention? One was my partner. He routinely does rather well at the state 1K championships; if he's not winning, he's close to. That guy can shoot.

One of my friends did a nifty one, built a new stick (he builds his own boltguns). Took it out for the preliminary shoot, and set up at barely over 400 yards by the laser. Ran three rounds at it. Two were touching, the third turned the group into under 1". It was declared "good enough". Since it was the first three rounds down the tube, the target was saved

Varoadking, if you're looking for a half MOA guarentee, the guy you ought to be going to would be Geoff Corn. It's not cheap to purchase, but nothing great in life usually is. Tip: tell him what you want to accomplish, and let him do what he needs to in order to get there. I've got three sticks of his right now, and a fourth is being spooled up.

Others that can typically turn out a half MOA include 'ol Hook Boutin (Houah Hookey Boy!!). Last I spoke with him, he was taking in work through Autaugua Arms. Might recognize the name, he was the guy who first built M21s in country (Viet Nam) for the Airborne. Again, Hook knows what he's doing. Let him know what you're wanting, he'll provide.

It seems that in recent years, Ron Smith has been doing more and more military work. Wasn't always like that. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for him, it's always good to see a good shop doing well. He can build 'em, if he still does that kind of stuff (I honestly don't know). Some come in half MOA, some come in just over, but you're about there.

Does that help?
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Old 11-24-2005, 11:35 PM   #7
 
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Quote:
Thanks for the compliment, but I know you're just being nice. I'm nothing that special at all...... and I know it
Well Bravo, I havent been serious about shooting for long, and I havent got into rifle marksmanship at all yet - I bought my first pistol last year and I have been concentrating on leaning how to shoot a pistol. I want to get into CMP or NRA highpower eventually, but I havent got to it yet. But I know right now, I just cant shoot sub 1/2" groups off the bench, even if it is no problem for the rifle, much less from prone or any other position. I hope I get to be able to shoot sub-MOA at 600 reliably some day...

Quote:
was "pivot man" in the class, exactly middle of the graduates
What class, or what school that is, was that?
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Old 11-25-2005, 05:40 PM   #8
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkG
I bought my first pistol last year and I have been concentrating on leaning how to shoot a pistol.

Two thoughts come to mind. First is that a rifle is far more flexible in usage. If I were starting over, well, I'd do it as I did it before. Rifle first, pistola second. But of course, that's personal preference.

Secondly, for pistol instruction, it's difficult to beat Gunsite IMO. However, it's best to learn without having to go through the problems of de-programming any bad habits you've already engrained. Ask me how I know that
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkG
I want to get into CMP or NRA highpower eventually, but I havent got to it yet.

CMP (or when I started, DCM LOL!) is good for what it's good for. No doubt. Don't fool yourself though, a CMP shoot is a game, and the people doing the best at the game are the ones who play to win. I'm not denegrating CMP competition, I'm just saying that being top-flight at CMP competition doesn't teach one fieldcraft. Does wonders for position shooting though!

I feel confident that we've got some CMP shooters here that would wipe the floor with me as far as offhand, and possibly sitting position shooting. But odds are they'll do it with a rifle that wouldn't be what one would choose to field with. My choice of tactics determined my choice of tool, which determined my shooting style. Not the other way around.

The thing I'd do differently though is purchasing a good rifle off the bat. I started with a rack grade Garand, and a coach that essentially told me that when I was good enough to need something better, he'd tell me. If I hadn't had that coach, well........ but with a good rifle, anyone can see "I'm not holding MOA, it HAS to be MY fault". I'm sure you know what I mean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkG
What class, or what school that is, was that?

United States Marksmanship Academy. Tactical long range rifle. The instructor was a combat veteran with the 10th SFG. Unfortunately for us (fortunately for him, no doubt!) James retired, and to the best of my understanding, USMA is no longer. I believe that there was a class "due to popular demand" last year though, so I won't say that anything is impossible.
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Old 11-25-2005, 06:26 PM   #9
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"...Can anybody guarantee sub MOA with their rifles..." If they do, it'd with very specific match grade ammo only. Nobody in their right mind would gaurantee sub-MOA with any ammo. Surplus from anywhere, for example, isn't capable of sub-MOA. It's not made for that.
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Old 11-26-2005, 07:35 AM   #10
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Most any of the known armorers will build you a better match rifle than SA Inc. They're bedding leaves a lot to desire and they don't put the same attention in to sights, handguards (pretty much ALL of the details that would get worked by a custom smith).

Fulton is well known in competition circles for building a very good, very expensive rifle. They're backorder is usually well over 6 months.

My local M14 plumber has about a two week turnarounds and does an outstanding job--the same thing you'd find with most of the small outfits.

1/2 MoA is a tall order for an M14. It's nice when it happens, but you'd better be prepared to throw some major money at it. Sometimes, it just won't happen.

Ty
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Old 11-26-2005, 07:53 AM   #11
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 30Cal
1/2 MoA is a tall order for an M14. It's nice when it happens, but you'd better be prepared to throw some major money at it.
YUP! I know prices have gone up since I had mine built (parts keep on going up and up and up). Seems to me like mine was in the neighborhood of $3K plus a shot-out Sproingfeld NM. That included my optics, but I got a TREMENDOUS deal when I traded off the Mark 4 M1 for a M3.
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Old 11-26-2005, 10:43 AM   #12
 
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Quote:
CMP (or when I started, DCM LOL!) is good for what it's good for. No doubt. Don't fool yourself though, a CMP shoot is a game, and the people doing the best at the game are the ones who play to win. I'm not denigrating CMP competition, I'm just saying that being top-flight at CMP competition doesn't teach one fieldcraft. Does wonders for position shooting though!
The one time I shot a match, years ago, it was DCM. Me, my dad, and my brother went and shot a match, so that my dad could qualify to get a DCM Garand. That was when I was in high school, and we never shot a highpower match again, but we did get into shooting SASS matches fairly regularly for a year or two. After I got out of school though, I never did any shooting until about a year ago Then I got a pistol, and got into shooting that... more recently I got an M1A, so really learning how to shoot a rifle is my next priority.

While I know CMP/NRA Highpower doesn't teach everything one needs to know, I figure it will be a good place to start, learn position shooting, and get a bit of experience reading the wind. I don't care about being a gamer, but I do want to learn what I can. The reason why I haven't got into it yet though, is that my work schedule makes it very difficult to get to any of the matches - all the ranges that I know of that have HP matches are at least an hour drive, all the matches seem to be @ 8:00AM - and I have to work until 1AM most of the time. Also, both of the places I usually shoot make it difficult or impossible to shoot in any position other than off the bench Hopefully I will be able to go onto a different shift soon, perhaps around the first of next year, and I will be able to more easily make it to some matches.
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Old 11-26-2005, 01:41 PM   #13
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you.
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Old 11-26-2005, 01:49 PM   #14
 
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