BM59? - Gun Hub
Gun Hub

Go Back   Gun Hub > Battle Rifles > M1 Garand

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-11-2004, 08:55 PM   #1
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 592
BM59?

Hope I have the name right. Anyway a guy at the gun club asked me if I knew anyone interested in one. He said it was built from a rewelded reciever and was chambered in .308 and used M14 mags. I have heard a little about them but not much. He said it shot great. What would it be worth or should it be avoided? I don't really want it but thought I would ask just for the information.
Jacobite is offline  
Old 08-11-2004, 09:23 PM   #2
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 128
I think I would personally avoid anything with the word "reweld" in the description.
Engineer is offline  
Old 08-11-2004, 09:24 PM   #3
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 592
Quote:
Originally Posted by Engineer
I think I would personally avoid anything with the word "reweld" in the description.
My thoughts exactly!
Jacobite is offline  
 
Old 08-11-2004, 09:33 PM   #4
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 243
BM59

For some BM59 info try this sight: http://www.reesesurplus.com/bm59parts.html
Bucephalus is offline  
Old 08-12-2004, 08:40 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ontario, Commiefornia
Posts: 44
Re-weld is a frightening word. There are so many variables in the welding effort. What steel is the receiver made from? Both pieces the same? What way gas, straight arc, MIG, or TIG? What rod? How was the receiver normalized, stress relieved, and re-tempered. How does it gage? How good was the welder? Certified - High pressure pipe certified I would hope.


Ditto on the previous posts!!!


Mike
BM59_Fan is offline  
Old 08-17-2004, 12:29 AM   #6
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 180
BM59

Personally, I would not be too much concerned with a reweld failing in a catostrophic way. I have never heard of a reweld failing in terms of a K-Boom. They tend to fail for things like, not being in allignment, warped, etc., rather than an actual failure that could be really dangerous to the shooter (or observers).

I do not own a reweld. I have two of the Springfield Armory/Beretta versions, an Ital model and a Nigerian. Both have genuine forged Beretta receivers, which of course, has to be the best. I don't own a reweld, but I wouldn't mind owning one, especially one of the Santa Fe/Golden State versions or a Walter Craig M11 variety.

While talking of the Walter Craid variety, the M11, I would mention that it takes M14 mags but is not a BM59. No rifle that takes M14 mags is a BM59. They might be styled after the BM59, but are not BM59s. Only mag a BM59 will take is a BM59 mag. The others that take M14 mags are just similar to BM59s.

Back in the '60's-70's, about the only way to get a Garand/BM59 style rilfe was to buy a reweld. Some were better than others. Some were good, some were not. It seems that Beretta actually authorized the Santa Fe rewelds as being manufactured under license from Beretta. If nothing else, those should command some respect as having a bit of collector's interest. Personnally, I would feel comfortable shooting one. I do not think they are worth what a Berben or Benet import is worth, and they are not worth what the Springfield Armory versions are worth, but they should have some interest as a Beretta sanctioned rifle.

And I've never heard of one failing.

Of cuorse rewelding is not the best way of manufacturing a Garand receiver. A lot can go wrong. But in my own opinion, they are probably safe to shoot. There is a big, big list of resons to avoid rewelds. But not many, or any, can actually point to a catostrophic failure in a reweld. Most poeople would complain that the receiver allignment causes the op rod to disengage or some such. Never heard of one blowing up in a persons face.

The single biggest problem I see with rewelds is people want way to much money for them. They will advertise a Santa Fe/Golden State as being imported by Beretta, which is untrue, and will ask as much or more than a Springfield/Beretta, or Berben or Benet import. The big problem with the rewelds is they are often overpriced. Just stands to reason. Would you pay more for a firearm built from rewelding junk M1 Garand receivers, or one built from a genuine forged beretta receiver? I thinkk the answer is obvious.
boeboe is offline  
Old 08-17-2004, 07:29 AM   #7
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 592
boeboe,
That said how much should one be willing to pay for one that functions and shoots good?
Jacobite is offline  
Old 08-17-2004, 08:47 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ontario, Commiefornia
Posts: 44
Hey BoeBoe,

Whats the haps? We have talked before, and you have sent me nice pics!

About re-welds -- M-1 Garand, BM59, or M-14 it really doesn't matter. My problem with re-welds of the M-1 family is in its assembly AFTER all the machining has been done, and specifically in the gauging of the receiver where the distance between the most forward face and the bridge to the rear of the receiver that retracts the firing pin PRIOR to the bolt locking home. If this is not done a slam fire can result and that can be catastrophic, to you and to the receiver. In fact this is one of the items than should be checked on all in the M-1 Family as wear can affect this dimension. We are talking about a distance of 4.300 -.010 and that is IT. There are other measurements from this area but this is critical for safety. IF, and it is a big IF, the receiver sections were held by hard tooling during the re-weld, the steel in the two sections are the SAME (not just the same type but the same lot and heat), the correct rod was used AND the work performed by a Certified welder who can weld with NO voids or inclusions, I might say ------ Maybe --------.

I am an A&P Mech, Aerospace Engineer, Machinist, and a Gunsmith. based on that I can only say what MIGHT happen if all the wrong things happen at the wrong time. I am a firm believer in Mr Newton, Mr Confined Gunpowder, and Mr. Murphy but your mileage may vary.
BM59_Fan is offline  
Old 08-17-2004, 09:04 PM   #9
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,010
guys read this link http://www.fulton-armory.com/Weld.htm

i saw a santa fe reweld at a show. i didn't even need the machinsts rule. i could see the thing was not straight with your naked eye. if it's not straight how do you expect anything else to be right.

just stay away. there are plenty of perfectly good garands for sale from the CMP and on the market.

if you want one to make a wall hanger that's fine. put all your other junk parts on it.
fubar is offline  
Old 08-18-2004, 07:37 PM   #10
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 180
BM59

Sorry for any delay in responding. My job traveling for business keeps me limited in participation.

Hey BM59 Fan. Good to see you're still into them. They are a real obsession with me. I guess your user name indicates the same thing.

Jacobite, if the Sanat Fe looked good, wasn't visibly impared and head spaced properly, I wouldn't be afraid to drop around $800.00 in one. That would be my limit. If it was much higher than that, I'd just save a bit more and go for the West Texas Ord. version, new.

As fubar said, there are several things that must be considered. Metallurgy is a huge factor in firearms, and one reason I like the real BM59's is the fact that they have perfect metallurgy (or as close to perfect as you can get) when you buy a BM59 version with a forged receiver. No doubt, they are very tough rifles.

And again as was mentioned, geometry is critical. If the tolerances are not correct, the rifle is useless.

BUT (big but) there are several folks I have come across who have rewelds and never had one bit of problem with them. I have never heard of a catostrophic failure with a BM59 reweld. I am not sayting it can't happen. But they have been around since the early to mid 1960's and I can't find anyone who can point to a big kboom with one.

As much as can be said against the rewelds, there are several folk who have used them without any problems since the mid 1960's. So, maybe the concern is just a bit overstated.

I like forged receiver very, very much. I don't own a reweld. But as long as the rifle was within dimensional specs and functioned properly, I would have no problem feeling comfortable running thousands of rounds through a rewelded Sanat Fe.

My biggest problem with the Santa Fe rewelds is people sometimes want around $2000.00 or there abouts for them. They are wanting as much as what a new Reese Surplus/Springfield/Beretta version would sell for. Myself, personally, I would say around $800.00 would be the limit, and then only if there is some guarantee that it functions properly.
boeboe is offline  
Old 08-18-2004, 07:46 PM   #11
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 180
BM59

Hey BM59_Fan, just saw your location! I was in Pomona two weks ago (as well as Salt Lake City last week, and Phoenix this week). I have not been home for a while. In the last couple of years, I have been in Ontario twice, and very close a few times.

I do Quality Assurance Audits for Aerospace Primes, such as Boeing, General Electric, Rolls-Royce, Pratt&Whitney, etc via the Nadcap system. My specialty is nondestructive test. I hold ASNT Level III certification in penetrant, magnetic particle, radiography and ultrasonic inspection. It sounds like we have a lot in common. Maybe sometimes when I'm in the area we can have dinner or something!
boeboe is offline  
Old 08-18-2004, 07:51 PM   #12
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 592
boeboe,
Thank you for the reply. I think the guy is bringing it to the club tomorrow. I can shoot it before I buy. I don't know who made it but the guy said it shoots real well and he has shot it quite a bit. Of course I just met the guy but he seems like he is on the up and up. He is a retired coal miner and president of the gun club I just joined. Right now I am laid off so I won't be buying any time soon. But he did mention me buying it again today when I said once I had the money I wanted to get one of my M1's converted to .308.
His words were. "No save them and just buy my BM59"
Guess I will have to see if it trips my trigger and how well it functions.
Jacobite is offline  
Old 08-18-2004, 08:48 PM   #13
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 180
BM59

Jacobite,

If it shoots good, is accurate, looks decent, and the guy can be trusted, tell him you'll give him payments on it. Get it as reasonable as you can. A hundred dollars a month for the next six months or some such. Remember this: In 1964, you could buy them direct via mail order for $130. If he bought it back then, his $130 investment will be paid off if you get it for $500 or $600.

Just don't go spending big money on one. They are not worth the $2000.00 some people ask for them.

These are at some extremes in pricing. People who know will try to beat the price down as far as possible because they are rewelds. The seller will try to raise the price as much as possible because it is an imported collector's item (big lie). It sounds to me like you might have found a reliable rifle, given the seller's background. But to be safe, I'd say, make sure it functions properly, then buy it a low as you can with very reasonable terms.
boeboe is offline  
Reply

  Gun Hub > Battle Rifles > M1 Garand


Search tags for this page
3006 bm-59 rifles
,
accuracy bm59
,
are bm59 rifles sccurate
,
beretta bm 59 rewelds
,

bm-59 accuracy

,
bm59 accuracy
,
bm59 faliures
,
bm59 reweld
,

garand guy bm59

Click on a term to search for related topics.

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
BM59 in 30-06? ShootsM1A M1 Garand 7 08-21-2008 02:10 PM
WTB BM59 Mags Dickster M1 Garand 1 12-13-2005 03:19 PM
WTS/WTT BM59 2 mags Jeff Guns 0 04-13-2005 08:41 AM
WTS BM59 mag Panxan49 Accessories 0 01-27-2005 10:59 PM
BM59 skslover Semi Auto 18 11-24-2004 09:52 PM




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2002 - 2020 Gun Hub. All rights reserved.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.