m1 garand accuracy problems

Cornbread2 · 10-21-2005, 06:37 AM

Or it has a different zero hot than it does cold?

The bore looks OK but the damn thing just will not shoot well?

99% of the time it is because of the stock or handguards. The stock on many CMP rifles are the cause of their problems. The new Boyds stock you just bought can be even worse.

The first thing you look for is lock up. Is the action tight in the stock? Does it take some effort to close the trigger guard?

If the answer to these questions are yes them you are extremly lucky and the rest of your problems can be eaisly fixed.

The first thing you need to do is remove the lower handguard and put the rifle back in the stock and lock in the trigger group. Look down inside at how you barrel fits inside the stock.

The barrel must NOT be touching the stock. On most CMP guns you will need to remove some wood somewhere. The barrel should float from the reciever to the lower band. Wood touching the barrel in this area will cause flyers and a different zero as the rifle warms up.

While you are at it make sure the OP rod is not touching the stock anywhere. Remove wood if needed.

Now remove the rifle from the stock and put your lower handguard back on. The handguard must not be making contact with the reciever enough that it is a really tight fit between the reciever and lower band. There has to be a slight gap between the reciever and handguard. If the handguard is too long and it puts any pressure on the reciever it will cause a huge difference in zero from cold to hot.

The handguard should also float on the barrel. You should be able to run a piece of thin paper between it and the barrel. Most of the time it is not only touching the barrel but putting a lot of pressure on the barrel.

This also causes many zero and accuracy problems. Remove wood untill only the retaining clip touches the barrel.

Now comes the upper handguard. The most common problem that you find is the gas clyinder is tight against the upper handguard. This is a MAJOR screw up that can cause as much as a foot difference in your zero at only 100 yards from a cold rifle to a hot one. Combine this problem with a too tight lower handguard and your 100 yard zero can move as much as 15 inches from your first cold shot to your 20th round. This makes for poor shooting and any sort of long range accuracy impossible.

There must be just a bit of clearance between the upper handguard and gas cylinder. The handguard MUST have some slack in it. Some people can't stand the thought of this but you must learn to accept it if you wish to keep the rifle JCG match legal. You can do a NM mod to fix this but it is not too good for a field rifle.

After you get the wood correct expect to find that you now have a huge difference in your zero. You would not believe just how flexable the Garand barrel is. Stock and handguard problems can bend the barrel causing problems with your zero.

Do all of this right and make sure the OP rod is not touching anything it is not supposed to and your Garand will become a much better shooter.

Snake45 · 10-21-2005, 07:16 AM

Excellent information, thanks for taking the time and trouble to share!

Dave P · 10-21-2005, 08:46 AM

Great Data!

Quagmire · 10-21-2005, 08:50 AM

Thanks!

delloro · 10-21-2005, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornbread2

... The [lower] handguard must not be making contact with the reciever enough that it is a really tight fit between the reciever and lower band. There has to be a slight gap between the reciever and handguard. If the handguard is too long and it puts any pressure on the reciever it will cause a huge difference in zero from cold to hot....

I had a new USGI rear HG that was not a tight fit, but still contacted the receiver. I left it on to see how much stringing it would cause. shooting the gun like that cracked the nice new rear HG....

Cornbread2 · 10-21-2005, 10:26 AM

As I said before that thin Garand barrel is more flexable that most people think. I once saw a extremly slow motion film of an AK and a Garand firing.

The barrel on both look like they were made of rubber. You would not believe it unless you seen it.

The AK barrel would flex downward because of the force of the gas system on top of the barrel. It really looked like the AK barrel was flexing at least an inch or more at the muzzle.

Strip everything off a garand barrel and mount the reciever in a strong heavy vice. You can take one finger and flex the barrel.

A stock or handguard that is not right can bend the barrel.

The flex of the barrel can break handguards eaisly if they are too tight.

Mauser88 · 10-21-2005, 11:00 AM

Great information, thanks!!!

JJRea · 10-21-2005, 08:19 PM

Cornbread, thanks. I just sanded down my, what you call lower handgaurd, so that it's not touching the reciever anymore. It was tight. I appreciate the help. I also peened my splines so my gas cylinder is right tight. It was real loose. Now my next challenge is to get a tight stock. Mine is looooo-ooooose. And I want to keep it legal for JCG matches. It moves forward and backward a hair and there's barely any tension when putting my trigger group on. I may have to go for the CMP stock. I don't think I want the thick boyds. I'm not 100% sure though. But thanks again for the tips.

[img]http://images.snapfish.com/344%3C%3B82323232%7Ffp64%3Dot%3E2326%3D483%3D343%3 DXROQDF%3E2323957987272ot1lsi[/img]

Cryto · 10-21-2005, 11:34 PM

Information like this REALLY needs to be put into a FAQ thread, and then stickied... Mods, this is a hint.

avery53 · 10-22-2005, 05:06 AM

now that's some great info.

My HRA starts stringing towards 5 0'clock as it warms up.
Now I know what to check for.
Thanks
avery53

MarkG · 10-22-2005, 11:27 AM

Thanks for the info cornbread, my garand definately moves zero when it gets warm...

Dave P · 10-22-2005, 11:40 AM

JJRea: before buying a new stock, try inserting some paper shims under the trig guard for a tight lockup (and/or under the frnt of the rcvr). Business cards work well.

Often you can see a vast improvement in accuracy. This might give you an idea of what you and the rifle are capable of.

Dave

JJRea · 10-22-2005, 02:33 PM

I'm thinking about it but it's not legal for jcg. It's already gotten some good groups. Just not consistently. But that's probably me. It might be the rifle. I can't barely see the target at 100.

[img]http://images.snapfish.com/3453246%3B23232%7Ffp58%3Dot%3E2326%3D483%3D343%3DX ROQDF%3E2323943%3B75273ot1lsi[/img]
[img]http://images.snapfish.com/3453246%3B23232%7Ffp64%3Dot%3E2326%3D483%3D343%3DX ROQDF%3E2323%3A%3C%3B633%3A99ot1lsi[/img]
Those were my two best. But it's about a 3-4 moa gun on average, at least with me behind it.

delloro · 10-23-2005, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJRea

I'm thinking about it but it's not legal for jcg.... It might be the rifle....

shim first and see how much it helps before you make other mods. don't keep the shims there, they look terrible

. the shims are just a diagnostic tool.

JJRea · 10-23-2005, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delloro

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJRea

I'm thinking about it but it's not legal for jcg.... It might be the rifle....

shim first and see how much it helps before you make other mods. don't keep the shims there, they look terrible

. the shims are just a diagnostic tool.

I shimed it. It locks up real good now. Seems like just how it's supposed to be. I don't know if it helped much. I posted some results in the thread called "more garand groups". I also took a little off my lower handgaurd, the one right in front of the receiver. I think it did something because my poi with ammo I had zero'd last week was about 4" higher. I came down 2 clicks at 100 eventually. But I don't know if she's shooting much better. I think it is a little better.

Retmsgt. · 10-24-2005, 06:18 AM

What those Business-card shims tell you is that either the lugs on your triggerguard are D-d( D-shaped and loosing lockup pressure) or, that your wood is compressed at the forward handguard(The floorplate). Try replacing the triggerguard first as bedding the stock forward of the triggerguard in the floorplate area makes the stock illegal for JCG-use.

metalhead357 · 10-24-2005, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retmsgt.

as bedding the stock forward of the triggerguard in the floorplate area makes the stock illegal for JCG-use.

I understand that bedding makes it illegal for JCG~ What about either steaming the stock or adding WOOD PUTTY????

Thanks,

Metalhead

Retmsgt. · 10-25-2005, 03:42 AM

Steaming's okay but, any kind of artificial buildup to improve lockup is considered bedding. The problem with trying to steam the wood in that area to raise it up is being able to do it equally on both sides. You'd probably be better off trying to steam the topside of the stock forward where the receiver front sits. Remember to reseal after you steam it though(and it dries). If it's a JCG rifle, just save yourself alot of time and misery and buy a CMP stockset.

metalhead357 · 10-25-2005, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retmsgt.

If it's a JCG rifle, just save yourself alot of time and misery and buy a CMP stockset.

Thanks

Do you like the new CMP stocksets? I keep hearing mixed reactions around here and that they're not much more than glorified Boyd's stock sets

that are sometimes more hassle than they're worth.....

metalhead

Retmsgt. · 10-26-2005, 04:13 AM

Yeah, I just got one about a week and a half ago. Fits tighter than a drum, have to tap the receiver in with the heel of my hand several times to get it to seat. Looks great, although there are a few spots with sanding scratches I'm going to sand out later. I got lucky and got a Dark Walnut.

10-21-2005, 06:37 AM	#1
Cornbread2 Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,224	So that CMP Garand is not so accurate? Or it has a different zero hot than it does cold? The bore looks OK but the damn thing just will not shoot well? 99% of the time it is because of the stock or handguards. The stock on many CMP rifles are the cause of their problems. The new Boyds stock you just bought can be even worse. The first thing you look for is lock up. Is the action tight in the stock? Does it take some effort to close the trigger guard? If the answer to these questions are yes them you are extremly lucky and the rest of your problems can be eaisly fixed. The first thing you need to do is remove the lower handguard and put the rifle back in the stock and lock in the trigger group. Look down inside at how you barrel fits inside the stock. The barrel must NOT be touching the stock. On most CMP guns you will need to remove some wood somewhere. The barrel should float from the reciever to the lower band. Wood touching the barrel in this area will cause flyers and a different zero as the rifle warms up. While you are at it make sure the OP rod is not touching the stock anywhere. Remove wood if needed. Now remove the rifle from the stock and put your lower handguard back on. The handguard must not be making contact with the reciever enough that it is a really tight fit between the reciever and lower band. There has to be a slight gap between the reciever and handguard. If the handguard is too long and it puts any pressure on the reciever it will cause a huge difference in zero from cold to hot. The handguard should also float on the barrel. You should be able to run a piece of thin paper between it and the barrel. Most of the time it is not only touching the barrel but putting a lot of pressure on the barrel. This also causes many zero and accuracy problems. Remove wood untill only the retaining clip touches the barrel. Now comes the upper handguard. The most common problem that you find is the gas clyinder is tight against the upper handguard. This is a MAJOR screw up that can cause as much as a foot difference in your zero at only 100 yards from a cold rifle to a hot one. Combine this problem with a too tight lower handguard and your 100 yard zero can move as much as 15 inches from your first cold shot to your 20th round. This makes for poor shooting and any sort of long range accuracy impossible. There must be just a bit of clearance between the upper handguard and gas cylinder. The handguard MUST have some slack in it. Some people can't stand the thought of this but you must learn to accept it if you wish to keep the rifle JCG match legal. You can do a NM mod to fix this but it is not too good for a field rifle. After you get the wood correct expect to find that you now have a huge difference in your zero. You would not believe just how flexable the Garand barrel is. Stock and handguard problems can bend the barrel causing problems with your zero. Do all of this right and make sure the OP rod is not touching anything it is not supposed to and your Garand will become a much better shooter.

10-22-2005, 05:06 AM	#10
avery53 Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 214	Alrighty--- now that's some great info. My HRA starts stringing towards 5 0'clock as it warms up. Now I know what to check for. Thanks avery53

10-22-2005, 11:40 AM	#12
Dave P Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 700	Loose Stock JJRea: before buying a new stock, try inserting some paper shims under the trig guard for a tight lockup (and/or under the frnt of the rcvr). Business cards work well. Often you can see a vast improvement in accuracy. This might give you an idea of what you and the rifle are capable of. Dave

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cmp garand accuracy

goes a garand have to be tight to shoot well

m1 garand accuracy

m1 garand accuracy problems

m1 garand gas system cause of inaccuracy

m1 garand main cause of inaccuracy

m1 garand upper hand guard to tight

so your garand shoot so well

steaming m1 garand stock tighten floorplate

10-21-2005, 07:16 AM	#2
Snake45 Moderator Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: "Close, but no donut!" Posts: 13,150	Excellent information, thanks for taking the time and trouble to share!

10-21-2005, 08:46 AM	#3
Dave P Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 700	Great Data!

10-21-2005, 08:50 AM	#4
Quagmire Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: NW Florida Posts: 6,793	Thanks!

10-21-2005, 10:26 AM	#6
Cornbread2 Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,224	As I said before that thin Garand barrel is more flexable that most people think. I once saw a extremly slow motion film of an AK and a Garand firing. The barrel on both look like they were made of rubber. You would not believe it unless you seen it. The AK barrel would flex downward because of the force of the gas system on top of the barrel. It really looked like the AK barrel was flexing at least an inch or more at the muzzle. Strip everything off a garand barrel and mount the reciever in a strong heavy vice. You can take one finger and flex the barrel. A stock or handguard that is not right can bend the barrel. The flex of the barrel can break handguards eaisly if they are too tight.

10-21-2005, 11:00 AM	#7
Mauser88 Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 204	Great information, thanks!!!

10-21-2005, 08:19 PM	#8
JJRea Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 394	Cornbread, thanks. I just sanded down my, what you call lower handgaurd, so that it's not touching the reciever anymore. It was tight. I appreciate the help. I also peened my splines so my gas cylinder is right tight. It was real loose. Now my next challenge is to get a tight stock. Mine is looooo-ooooose. And I want to keep it legal for JCG matches. It moves forward and backward a hair and there's barely any tension when putting my trigger group on. I may have to go for the CMP stock. I don't think I want the thick boyds. I'm not 100% sure though. But thanks again for the tips. [img]http://images.snapfish.com/344%3C%3B82323232%7Ffp64%3Dot%3E2326%3D483%3D343%3 DXROQDF%3E2323957987272ot1lsi[/img]

10-21-2005, 11:34 PM	#9
Cryto Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Colorado Posts: 942	Information like this REALLY needs to be put into a FAQ thread, and then stickied... Mods, this is a hint.

10-22-2005, 11:27 AM	#11
MarkG Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 2,334	Thanks for the info cornbread, my garand definately moves zero when it gets warm...

10-22-2005, 02:33 PM	#13
JJRea Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 394	I'm thinking about it but it's not legal for jcg. It's already gotten some good groups. Just not consistently. But that's probably me. It might be the rifle. I can't barely see the target at 100. [img]http://images.snapfish.com/3453246%3B23232%7Ffp58%3Dot%3E2326%3D483%3D343%3DX ROQDF%3E2323943%3B75273ot1lsi[/img] [img]http://images.snapfish.com/3453246%3B23232%7Ffp64%3Dot%3E2326%3D483%3D343%3DX ROQDF%3E2323%3A%3C%3B633%3A99ot1lsi[/img] Those were my two best. But it's about a 3-4 moa gun on average, at least with me behind it.

10-24-2005, 06:18 AM	#16
Retmsgt. Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: ohio Posts: 5,714	What those Business-card shims tell you is that either the lugs on your triggerguard are D-d( D-shaped and loosing lockup pressure) or, that your wood is compressed at the forward handguard(The floorplate). Try replacing the triggerguard first as bedding the stock forward of the triggerguard in the floorplate area makes the stock illegal for JCG-use.

10-25-2005, 03:42 AM	#18
Retmsgt. Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: ohio Posts: 5,714	Steaming's okay but, any kind of artificial buildup to improve lockup is considered bedding. The problem with trying to steam the wood in that area to raise it up is being able to do it equally on both sides. You'd probably be better off trying to steam the topside of the stock forward where the receiver front sits. Remember to reseal after you steam it though(and it dries). If it's a JCG rifle, just save yourself alot of time and misery and buy a CMP stockset.

10-26-2005, 04:13 AM	#20
Retmsgt. Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: ohio Posts: 5,714	Yeah, I just got one about a week and a half ago. Fits tighter than a drum, have to tap the receiver in with the heel of my hand several times to get it to seat. Looks great, although there are a few spots with sanding scratches I'm going to sand out later. I got lucky and got a Dark Walnut.