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Old 02-02-2007, 07:12 AM   #1
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Original Paratrooper???

My Father has a Paratrooper Carbine which was given to his father by an Air Force General (who happened to be Gen. Hap Arnold's brother) sometime during the '50s.

Anyways this thing is in really nice shape and I'd love to find out a little about it for my Dad. Any and all help would be appreciated.

The markings are-
Recever=
INLAND DIV.
64251XX
--with an E stamped under the lug for the trigger guard pin
Barrel=
INLAND MFG. DIV.
GENERAL MOTORS
11-44
--with numerous proof marks under the chamber (op. rod/gas piston area), a small P on the top of the bbl, and SI on the bbl band.
Rear sight= I.R CO.
Trigger group= Inland
Hammer= W.I
Mag release= M
Op. rod= 71????1 and a C
Bolt= 10 and a 2 on the left lug
Stock= Ordnance symbol on right side of pistol grip
--bottom of pistol grip= ?(P or B)I with a 3 underneath
--buttplate= 4-5 numbers(illegible), a wagon wheel, and others possible.. this piece is rough cast making it hard to decipher
--Handguard= 10

Here are some of the pictures I snapped of it
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v718/TK14SS/fullrightside.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v718/TK14SS/boltopenright.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v718/TK14SS/buttplate.jpg[/img]
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7.../rightside.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...erleftside.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...4SS/folded.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...prightside.jpg

I have a few more pix but those should represent it pretty well.

Like I said this thing is in great "original" condition and we just fired it the other day with some original ammo (LC 52-53 and two other headstamps), along with my M14... what a blast.

Thanks!
Troy
FWIW- Yes, I posted the same message on the M14 forum/M1 carbine area (and WarRifles.com). I'm just trying to find good solid info on the neat old rifle.
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Old 02-02-2007, 03:39 PM   #2
 
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That is the most perfect late M1A1 I have seen. Some pictures of the stock markings would be great.
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Old 02-02-2007, 04:21 PM   #3
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Well Thank you! I've gotten mixed reviews on it so far. Some seem to think that it is a rebuild and someone else thought that maybe the stock was a replacement. I can only say that nothing was rebuilt or replaced since my Grandfather received it, etc...

The only markings on the stock are the ordnance symbol which you can kind of see here http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...ancesymbol.jpg and the letters/numbers on the bottom of the grip, and inside of the handguard and "fore end"

Actually (as shameful as it is) my Dad had all but forgotten about it up in the attic until I asked him about it again not too long ago. He hadn't shot it since the early '70s and that was also the last time it was cleaned until I recently gave it a decent (non invasive) cleaning. It was up in the attic wrapped up in an old piece of cloth/curtain. My Dad being a lifetime hunter and former Marine has never been abusive to his weapons but this one was all but forgotten.

It is such a neat little rifle and so cool to find out about. I'd just love to know the true story behind it... whether it is all original or somewhat rebuilt or whatever.

I also thought that some of you true collectors and enthusiasts would just enjoy seeing and hearing about it.

No matter what it is still a prize and Dad won't be parting with it any time soon.

Troy
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Old 02-02-2007, 04:35 PM   #4
 
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It's a great looking rifle. One thing that would make me think it was rebuilt is the rotary safety. Am I wrong for thinking this would have originally been a push button. Definately keep this great family hierloom.
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Old 02-02-2007, 06:16 PM   #5
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The adjustable sight and bayonet lug also peg it as a rebuild, if I'm not mistaken.
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Old 02-02-2007, 06:26 PM   #6
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Well alright those all make sense, If only I knew "for sure".
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Old 02-02-2007, 06:31 PM   #7
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Hey, nothing wrong with a quality arsenal rework. They are as "GI correct" as any other carbine, especially for Korean War and Vietnam vintage. You've got a treasure there, a real keeper.
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Old 02-02-2007, 07:03 PM   #8
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Great point!
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Old 02-02-2007, 07:12 PM   #9
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By the Riesch book, both the type 3 rear sight and type 3 SI marked barrel band are correct for his S/N. Is the P proof mark on top of the barrel in front of the barrel band? If it is, you're golden.

The safety is wrong though. Doesn't mean it went through a rebuild though, it could have been swapped at the unit level.

I think it's a fine looking M1A1 and I'd be very pleased to own it.
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Old 02-02-2007, 07:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quagmire
By the Riesch book, both the type 3 rear sight and type 3 SI marked barrel band are correct for his S/N.
Way cool! Is the SN correct for an M1A1?
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Old 02-02-2007, 07:20 PM   #11
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Sweet!
Yes, the P is in front of the barrel band.
Again more interesting info, this is really so much fun finding out about.
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Old 02-02-2007, 08:13 PM   #12
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By the Riesch book it's a little late for the 2nd M1A1 production run (S/N's 5,000,000 - 6,250,000), but I don't know. I'm not very knowledgeable on M1A1 carbines.

Maybe a more advanced collector can chime in on this.
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Old 02-03-2007, 04:39 AM   #13
 
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What type mag release would this gun have had originally. I see it has a late model one of those as well. Either way its an awesome gun and a great piece of history and if it has a few updated parts who cares. If you want to get it back to as issued it wouldn't probably be very expensive. Do you think you'll take it out and shoot it when things thaw out?
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Old 02-03-2007, 05:44 AM   #14
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I would not change a think, if it came that way from a rearsenal thats the way it should stay.
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Old 02-03-2007, 03:53 PM   #15
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That M1A1 could be one of the very late second models. They were at the tail end of production in that serial number range, And it is possible although extremely unlikely that the safety is original. But the safety would need to be E.I. marked. Rifles occasionally got hung up in the repair shop if something wasn't right and later parts could be put into them. That would be very rare.
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Old 02-03-2007, 06:09 PM   #16
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Hey, thanks guys, keep the info and opinions coming I enjoy the heck out of this!

Quote:
Rifles occasionally got hung up in the repair shop if something wasn't right and later parts could be put into them. That would be very rare.
Of course that is exactly what must have happened here. This thing is double dog dare top secret probationary rare

If only we really knew the exact story behind it, that sure would be great. But then again sometimes I guess that is the mystique of this type of thing, and the stories it could tell. So far the only thing we have to go on is my dads story and the fact of knowing that he, nor his father, ever changed a thing on it. So, it must've come out of some armory that way.

I'm sure that there is more to this story seeing as my grandpa was the Sheriff at the time and General Arnold was still active (I beleive). I'm not sure if he had anything to do with the old Camp Haven (base/gun range) north of here (Sheboygan, WI) which has since been bought up by Mr. Herbert Kohler (yep, of Kohler plumbing products +) and made into the Whistling Straits golf course (site of the 86th PGA championship, 2004)??? I guess I'd really have to do some serious research and homework to try to figure out more... maybe some day I will, until then I'll go with the short story I have.

A little Info on Camp Haven can be found here if you're interested.
http://www.sheboygan.lib.wi.us/pages/haven.html

TK
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Old 08-29-2010, 02:47 PM   #17
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Re: Original Paratrooper???

I have taken fresh pictures and the rifle is now listed for sale in the buy, sell & trade:firearms section

Thank you!
Troy
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