Couple of questions about my #2
I have a couple of questions about my second carbine I bought last week. The rear sight is the adjustable type and it has "IR. CO." followed by either a seven digit part or serial number stamped on the windage adjustment knob side. That "I" might be a "T". The front sight post is stamped "PO B". The sling well in the stock is stamped "SCB". The fifteen round mag that came with it is stamped "SW". I have a list of magazine manufacturers and I don't see that stamp on my list. Can you guys tell me what all the stamps mean? And finally, if you look at the pitting in the picture of the trigger group what do you suppose could cause that other than salt water maybe? For more pictures see my post "another carbine" 11/17/05.
The last letter is the maker code. B is IBM. Rusting causes pitting for sure. Salt would do it to. I have seen severe pitting on metal from chemicals too...but none that I would expect a carbine to be subjected to...has to be pretty caustic.
FOB, SCB are IBM parts, I.R.CO. correct for late carbines.
Blood is also very salty. Maybe that is why the eitire trigger group is not rusty.
SCB is Sprague Calson for IBM.
SW is either Seymour Products for Winchester or Stanley Works for Winchester.
Thank you so much for the replies. Isn't the internet just great. It would have taken me a long time I am sure to find the answers you fellows gave me. It looks like the carbine I bought is all origional IBM stuff. Where do you suppose it has been these many years? Can you tell by who imported it where it came from?
Unless there is an import stamp on it, there is a good chance it was not "reimported".
Yes it is import stamped. The importer is Interarms of Sacramento, Ca.
Knowing that can I tell where this carbine came from?
Not that I know of. If it is an original IBM I would just put some oil on that pitting and leave it alone. Import or not, the value of an original is much greater than a restoration or arsenal rebuilt carbine.
Serial # 39619xx. Someone said that this number was probably made about May of 44. If that is correct, would my carbine be origional with the adjustable rear sight and wide barrel band without the bayonet lug?
Yes, very well could be.
Yes, very well could be.
Regarding the pitting, I have one or two carbines that came from Vietnam that exhibit similar pitting. These were generally stored very poorly, often in high heat and humidity. These guns were usually cleaned-up and refinished prior to sale, but the pitting remains.
I'm not sure if any of the Vietnam carbines ever ended up being re-imported into the US, but the pitting you see certainly looks like it could be from a couple of decades of poor storage.
Sprague Carlton, in addition to supplying IBM with stocks, also had two small contracts with ordnance to supply stocks in 1945.
Your 396XXXX carbine was made near the end of IBM's carbine production. I believe the last shipment from IBM was in April, 1944. The adjustable rear sight and type 2 barrel band would be correct for this late vintage IBM. Why dont you post some pictures. I would be interested to see if the serial number is stamped behind the rear sight.
Can you tell anything about the production date by this pic.. I also noticed that this carbine has a very thick stock at the wrist compared to my other one. Also, is this the remains of the ordnance stock cartouche.
As was already said, it is a late production IBM, April 44. Two ordnance stamps. Unsure why there would be two, but yes those are the crossed cannon stamps and they look about the right size for IBM stamps.
btw, most people won't show the entire serial number, blot out the last 3 or 4 digits with photoshop. :wink: Just info that doesn't need to be out and about, if you know what I mean.
Audie, thanks for the advice about the serial number. I was wondering how to blot it out as I didn't really want to show it, but I didn't know how to do that. I posted the picture of the serial number because Newscotlander wanted to know if it was stamped behind the rear sight. I'm not sure what he meant by that, so I took a picture anyway hoping someone may tell me more about this carbine. I have two now and I'm playing catch-up with all there is to learn about these, which is a lot. It appears that based on production numbers my IBM is a little more rare than my Saginaw.
I just use the paint program in windows and block it out with a black box or something. Not a big deal.
I don't think you will get more info. I have a 395XXXX IBM, and what you now know is about what I know about mine.
Here is that info:
IBM CORP on barrel, undated, no flaming bomb
Stamped/Brazed front sight. either POB or SIB
Type 1 or 2 band, usually unmarked
Brazed housing. BE-B is most common
tyep 2 trigger. Mine is PDB, but there are several others
type 3 push button safety marked EPB. an unmarked safety is incorrect for a late IBM
Type 3 mag catch, plain face
Sear with no hole. various markings...mine is SW-B
Sear spring should not have tapered edges
No dog leg hammer. Only straight ones
Bolt. Round. AOB is common.
type 3 extractor marked W-B or IB
Any type firing pin marked with the B code
type 3 or 4 slide
IRCo stamped rear sight is most likely correct
Stock SC-B on yours is good.
If you match all of that, you could have an all original piece.
Not sure why he wanted to see serial number, but is the correct font, etc...sometimes IBM recievers had an AO mark, but don't know when that was happening. You have a late production, probably correct IBM. In that case, I would not replace the pitted parts if it does not effect shooting...if so, replace it with an BE-B with a similar finish, and put the old one aside for collectability.
btw, collecting is fun, shooting them is even better. :wink:
I hope no one thinks I 'm being a pest asking all kinds of questions here, but one thing just leads to another. As I stated earlier, this is my second carbine and I just keeping noticing things that are different between the two. Now I've noticesd that the thickness of the stocks at the wrist are different. My IBM is much thicker than my Sag. What's the story on wrist thickness, or is there one?
All stocks were interchangeable, not exactly the same. There are minor variations between makers like the flat bottom of the foreend on Winchesters and the thicker wrist that you noticed. That is part of what makes carbines so interesting.
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