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Old 05-20-2005, 09:58 AM   #1
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Refurbished or As-Issued?

I found this link through my rifle club. SUPER!!!!!!!! Realized I was the proud owner of a carbine I had bought from a brother-in-law who was in need of some $$'s back in 98'. I had put it in my safe, expecting him to want it back (Sorry, not now). Have been checking the specifics according to Craig Rieschs' book on US Carbines and this Forum. My Carbine has a Winchester reciever serial# 1069XXX and all parts (have not brokendown the bolt, yet) seem to be correct with book and forum. The Carbine is in great shape with few dings and scratches. I'm not sure what "As Issued" means, but assume it means as originally delievered from the manufacture. MY QUESTION: Is there any way one can determine if a M1 Carbine is "As Issued" or "Refurbished" using correct parts for that serial # and manufacture?
Missed-Shot is offline  
Old 05-20-2005, 10:36 AM   #2
 
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Perhaps. We'd have to see it to judge correctness of finishes, colors, etc. Sometimes it's hard to say for sure. Like you said, 'as-issued' means in original configuration with no original parts altered or changed out. 'Refurbished' means to me that the item was overhauled and put in perfect working condition, not necessarily put back in original condition. Many carbine owners make it a quest to put their carbines in totally original configuration, and yours could certainly be one of those. Or, it may be a completely original carbine. These are still coming out of the woodwork as our 'greatest generation' veterans move on to a better place.
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Old 05-22-2005, 05:00 PM   #3
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Not to put too fine a point on it, but as issued means exactly that, as issued, rebuilt or not. Original configuration or as manufactured means it has the same parts, or parts types that it had when it left the factory. This has been a major point of discussion many times. It is almost impossible to prove that an apparantly original carbine has not been restored, so it is referred to as original configuration. As issued carbines may have been issued in original configuration, partially updated, fully updated, or completely rebuilt. And unless you have some proof of the history of the carbine (provenance) it is impossible to say who did what to the carbine during the time it has been in private hands.
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Old 05-22-2005, 06:21 PM   #4
 
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I was taking 'as issued' in the context of 'AS ORIGINALLY ISSUED WHEN BRAND NEW'. It should be obvious to all that carbines were continually being upated, repaired and rebuilt until they were taken out of service. This is 'service grade', meaning a carbine in fully functional condition and meeting the appearance requirements, ready to be taken out and used in combat. This is the condition of my carbine and many others, although most carbines I see on the market are not service grade and would be sent in for rebuilding if they were still in the military.
Missed Shot's carbine sounds like an original one, but of course there's no way to tell if it was put into that condition by a civilian.
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Old 05-23-2005, 09:28 AM   #5
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Inland, while you and I and many others here understand the nuiances of the terminology, we need to be careful in how we say things like "as issued". The beginning collector can be badly confused by such terms, so we need to state exactly what we mean. Its sort of like the descriptions we see on the auction sites; i.e. original style rear sight, or mint condition all original 43 with adjustable sight and bayonet lug, or some such other half-truth. These things are confusing enough, so lets all take a little extra care in how we say things.
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Old 05-23-2005, 10:48 AM   #6
 
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'As-issued' still means the same thing to me, and that is the condition of the new carbine the instant before it was handed to the first G.I. If anyone thinks it means any used carbine at any time upon issue or reissue, I think they're wrong.
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Old 05-23-2005, 01:37 PM   #7
 
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I generally break it down like this...

Original. An original, unmodified as manufactured rifle.

As Issued. A rifle that is in the same condition as it is/was when issued to troops.

Rebuilt. A rifle that has been through a rebuild process.

Restored. A rifle that has been restore to an original condition.

I agree with Jim in that an "as issued" rifle may be in any configuration as long as it is the same as when it last left the military's armory. Or simply put "in the condition as it was when issued to a GI"

By using it to mean a rifle that "in original configuration" as Inland44 infers then you basically have no need for an original classification.
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Old 05-23-2005, 07:51 PM   #8
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I agree, to avoid confusing the newer collectors who probably aren't familiar with the history of the Carbine (and I have been known to use "as-issued" incorrectly myself), let's use "as manufactured" or "as-delivered" and not as-issued. A Carbine could be issued several times during its lifetime, and some may not have ever been issued.
 
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