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Old 07-28-2020, 12:03 PM   #1
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Looks like Remington is officially toast...

Just filed for bankruptcy. If you're losing money in a seller's market for your product like this, it's probably time to blackball your execs from eer working in the industry again...

https://bearingarms.com/tom-k/2020/0...es-bankruptcy/

We've long traded musings about anti-gun hedge funds buying gun companies to deliberately tank them, and this looks to somewhat support that.
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Old 07-28-2020, 02:12 PM   #2
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Wait..

Who is "Remington" now?? They are a spin-off from Cerberus Capital who purchased DPMS, Remington, Bushmaster, Marlin and Para-Ordnance. Cerberus was forced to spin off "Freedom Arms Group" to appease all the liberal weenies that were going to pull funds from Cerberus after Sandy Hook.

After buying Bushmaster, they pulled out of Windham Maine, after purchasing Para, they moved them out of Canada. After purchasing Marlin they moved them out of their factory.. (are you seeing a pattern here?). When you are a venture capital firm, you are looking to maximize profits and many times they make some stupid moves. Remington today is NOT the Remington of old!
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Old 07-28-2020, 02:24 PM   #3
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True, Classic Remmy is dead, it's just a Lefty hedge-fund management team wearing the brand like a flayed skin.

Don't forget Stormlake Barrels... 20 years ago when Bobbi still ran the show they did top-notch stuff including custom work, now it's limited to a few catalog barrels only.
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Old 07-28-2020, 07:43 PM   #4
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I believe that Gov. Cuomo shut them down during the Pandemic. Not sure if they were ever allowed to reopen.

Shutting them down cut off from one of the biggest selling markets I can remember.
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Old 09-14-2020, 11:29 AM   #5
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Interesting... PSA is putting in a bid on Remington's ammo business-unit.

https://warisboring.com/bankrupt-rem...-surprise-you/
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Old 09-15-2020, 06:33 AM   #6
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Interesting... PSA is putting in a bid on Remington's ammo business-unit.

https://warisboring.com/bankrupt-rem...-surprise-you/

There are multiple bidders, not just Palmetto State Armory. The thing that keeps many from bidding is that the LIABILITY over Sandy Hook has to be taken over by the buyer. I had someone in the industry tell me that just the lawyer fees and court costs are over 24 million at this point! And Remington Ammo has huge debt currently.

The wild card in the current ammunition situation is that only Olin and Federal produce primers domestically. Any other domestic manufacturer has to buy primers off of those two or buy off of foreign suppliers. International Cartridge Corp in March/April screwed up and double ordered primers off of Fiocchi and were at the time crying the blues, but now are laughing all the way to the bank!

Another person in the industry was telling me that a couple of months back, Hornady had a tiff with Federal, and Federal CUT THEM OFF on shipping any primers. Hornady had to crawl back and apologize in order to get their orders of primers.

[as a side note, Federal is now using "allocation" based off of 2019 historical purchasing data to set what a customer can order currently. Due to price increases, they are allowing that percentage increase on the allocation. I was told that they are booking 3-4 million dollars in new orders EVERY day, and they are quoting delivery around January 2022!]
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Old 09-16-2020, 01:03 PM   #7
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"I had someone in the industry tell me..."

"Another person in the industry was telling me..."

"I was told..."

Unfortunately, on this board we maintain a higher standard for the provenance of information than the usual internet standard, i.e., "I heard." For example, just a few minutes of Googling turned up the info that there are, in fact, four domestic manufacturers of primers: CCI, Olin-Winchester, Federal, and Remington. If you'd like links to the respective Safety Data Sheets filed with the U.S. government I can provide them.

I spent thirty-five years working at the same company, and about once a week a friend or colleague would approach me with an "I heard..." story. It got the point where the second the words "I heard" came out of someone's mouth I just stopped listening.

Finally, I adopted a strategy that turned out to be 100% effective: I would ask the speaker if he could recall a single instance...just one...where a story that he'd "heard" had turned out to be true. No one ever could.
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Old 09-17-2020, 09:39 AM   #8
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CaptainGyro,

At the risk of angering you (who I've known here for a long time), I occasionally (mostly several years ago) posted information that I KNEW to be TRUE but for various reasons CHOSE not to identify the "source" of, from the days when I worked for HoR Member Charlie Wilson (D- 2TX) and/or from one of my sources in the DoS and/or federal/military LE community.

In each of those cases, almost every word of I was "told" & posted here as "G2" turned out to be 100% true. = Members here were/ARE free to believe or NOT believe what I posted W/O "sourcing".
(That said, I seldom, these days, say such things as MOST of my "trusted contacts" on THE HILL, in the embassy circle of friends and/or in the LE agencies have left CONUS, retired and/or all too often DIED. = At 73YO, I have less & less living friends "in place" & "in positions to KNOW" facts.)

FYI, it sometimes seems that every week that I "get word" that yet another trusted friend "from the old days" has passed away. = It's called: NONE of us is getting any younger OR will live forever.

yours, sw
"Certified OF"
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Old 09-17-2020, 02:18 PM   #9
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Understand SW. "Angering" is not at issue here. I long ago learned that it's not worth getting upset when old friends and acquaintances don't see absolutely eye-to-eye on everything.

When newcomers show up on the forum I'm sometimes impatient with posts that don't rise to the level of credibility that we're used to. I'm sure GunnyGuy is a gentleman, but I don't think he's an attorney, and he authoritatively posted about LIABILITY (his caps) being the burden of the Remington ammunition division; the situation is quite a bit more complicated than that.

Hornady "crawling" to Federal for primers is farfetched. Federal is one of dozens of primer manufactures in the world, and the idea that Steve Hornady couldn't get one (or five or six) to ship some primers to Grand Island stretches the imagination beyond the breaking point.

To paraphrase G. Gordon Liddy, when a post contains list of gratuitous assertions that don't rise above the level of rumor, they can be just as gratuitously dismissed.
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Old 09-17-2020, 03:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainGyro View Post
>>>>>

To paraphrase G. Gordon Liddy, when a post contains list of gratuitous assertions that don't rise above the level of rumor, they can be just as gratuitously dismissed.
Hitchen's Razor: "What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."
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Old 09-17-2020, 04:45 PM   #11
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SpecialEd,

DISMISSING ANY assertion W/O evidence that the assertion is false, does NOT make the person LOOK intelligent, imVho. - "Hitchens Razor" like most such sayings (Occam's Razor being another such case.) is frequently WORTHLESS to a search for truth.

SADLY, based on my personal "in the field" experience in police intelligence operations, even HIGHLY UNLIKELY information is frequently CORRECT. - It pays to look into such things for yourself IF a person wants the TRUTH.
(Even 5 years ago MOST people TRUSTED the FBI & would have "dismissed" the assertion that the FBI Director & his "close circle of confederates" are THROUGHLY CORRUPT, ROUTINELY LIE under oath, manufacture "evidence" & knowingly FRAME innocent people for imaginary crimes as a LUNATIC "conspiracy theory" but that was before we all found out how 100% CORRUPT that the "leadership" of the agency was/IS.)

ADDENDA: About 4 years ago WHAT SERIOUS person of at least "reasonably normal IQ" would have believed that virtually ALL of the so-called "mainstream media", the "deep state", the Democrat Party, the Hollywood "celebrities", most of "academia", the east/west coast "social elites" & many other public/private agencies would "get together" to attempt a coordinated coup to remove a President Elect of the USA, even before 20JAN17??
(To quote Mark Twain, "There are many things that, if written as fiction, would expose the author to well-deserved public ridicule BUT there is nothing that could not have actually occurred." = In 2020, I often think of Mr. Twain's wise observation.)

yours, sw

Last edited by Doughboy; 09-17-2020 at 06:52 PM. Reason: ADD
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Old 09-17-2020, 04:48 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Doughboy View Post
SpecialEd,

DISMISSING ANY assertion W/O evidence that the assertion is false, does NOT make the person LOOK intelligent, imVho. - "Hitchens Razor" like most such sayings (Occam's Razor being another such case.) is frequently WORTHLESS to a search for truth.
>>>>>

yours, sw
It is neutral, It dismisses the [strike]evidence[/strike] assertion not the validity of the [strike]evidence[/strike] assertion.

Last edited by SpecialEd; 09-17-2020 at 07:53 PM.
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Old 09-17-2020, 06:31 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by CaptainGyro View Post
To paraphrase G. Gordon Liddy, when a post contains list of gratuitous assertions that don't rise above the level of rumor, they can be just as gratuitously dismissed.
Or, to directly quote JJ Da Boss on Memphis Street Outlaws, "A mouth can say anything."
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Old 09-17-2020, 06:42 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by CaptainGyro View Post
"I had someone in the industry tell me..."

"Another person in the industry was telling me..."

"I was told..."

Unfortunately, on this board we maintain a higher standard for the provenance of information than the usual internet standard, i.e., "I heard." For example, just a few minutes of Googling turned up the info that there are, in fact, four domestic manufacturers of primers: CCI, Olin-Winchester, Federal, and Remington. If you'd like links to the respective Safety Data Sheets filed with the U.S. government I can provide them.

I spent thirty-five years working at the same company, and about once a week a friend or colleague would approach me with an "I heard..." story. It got the point where the second the words "I heard" came out of someone's mouth I just stopped listening.

Finally, I adopted a strategy that turned out to be 100% effective: I would ask the speaker if he could recall a single instance...just one...where a story that he'd "heard" had turned out to be true. No one ever could.

Guess you don't pay too good of attention .. CCI/Federal are ONE Company now .. Olin/Winchester Ammo is #2 -- and guess what -- Remington is SHUT DOWN IN BANKRUPTCY -- so PLEASE tell me how my info was incorrect? #WTF

I've been involved online far far too long to go naming my sources of info. When you do that, you find your info dries up if it gets back to your source that you named them! #sheesh

Perhaps in your incessant "googling" in an effort to call me out you should have looked at http://vistaoutdoor.com and you would see the companies that Vista owns. And if you were to go to the OP in this thread, you would also be able to ascertain that Remington IS CURRENTLY SHUT DOWN in bankruptcy.

Last edited by [email protected][email protected]; 09-17-2020 at 07:26 PM.
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Old 09-17-2020, 06:55 PM   #15
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Bye Felicia!

Just someone who likes to sneak in every 5-10 years to prove we were right about him all along.

Last edited by SpecialEd; 09-17-2020 at 08:11 PM.
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Old 09-17-2020, 07:15 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by SpecialEd View Post
It is neutral, It dismisses the evidence not the validity of the evidence.
Isn't that a distinction without a difference?
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Old 09-17-2020, 07:41 PM   #17
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Isn't that a distinction without a difference?
Well you got me there Sam, I was thinking about other things and not paying attention. The whole sentence/response is wrong as the point was a lack of evidence. The assertion is dismissed due to lack of evidence, regardless of the assertion.
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Old 09-19-2020, 08:45 AM   #18
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This may be nit-picking/throwing gasoline on a fire, but just because two-or more- corporate entities are owned by one conglomerate doesn't make them one company. CCI/Speer appears to have a primer making facility, Federal appears to have another.

Guess I'm going to have to hoard my stock of Remington 7 1/2 primers. At least until things get sorted out. One would think an ammo plant would currently be a license to print money.
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Old 09-26-2020, 03:57 PM   #19
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And if you were to go to the OP in this thread, you would also be able to ascertain that Remington IS CURRENTLY SHUT DOWN in bankruptcy.
No. Have an attorney attempt to explain the bankruptcy laws to you. Remington (specifically, thirteen associated companies) is in Chapter 11 bankruptcy proceedings. Chapter 11 involves reorganization under a judge's supervision. Companies continue to operate while in Chapter 11 all the time. They may sell off assets (with court approval) to reduce debt, but Chapter 11 does not mean a company closes its doors and liquidates. That would be Chapter 7.
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Old 09-26-2020, 03:59 PM   #20
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Save your breath, Cap'n, he's been wished to the cornfield.
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