Smith & Wesson: Breaking up's not hard to do?

DavidE · 11-14-2019, 02:46 PM

It looks like Smith and Wesson is being "Spun off."

I would watch very carefully to see if S&W was being loaded with the Parent Company's Debt. That was the move Daimler pulled with Chrysler when they bought Chrysler, took the Chrysler commercial van designs, then loaded all the debt from the one big company on the Chrysler before spinning it back off. In 2008, the results of that showed when Chrysler had to ask the U.S. Government for a bailout. (Mr. Lee Iacocca must not have been pleased to hear about that. He built Chrysler into a heck of a company before he left in the early 1990s.)

The second worrisome detail is people not wanting to deal with banking issues from being in the firearm business. There is a heavy smell of New York City and State financial thuggery in the air with that.

https://www.ft.com/content/2a51b7c4-...a-d9e2401fa7ca

<https://www.ft.com/content/2a51b7c4-065c-11ea-9afa-d9e2401fa7ca>

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ameri...183540726.html

<https://finance.yahoo.com/news/american-outdoor-brands-investors-react-183540726.html>

https://www.bizjournals.com/boston/n...ts-in-two.html

<https://www.bizjournals.com/boston/news/2019/11/13/smith-wesson-parent-company-splits-in-two.html>

csmkersh · 11-14-2019, 05:19 PM

Here we go again.

Smith & Wesson had been previously owned by Bangor Punta and Tomkins LLC before being acquired by Saf-T-Hammer Corporation in 2001. Smith & Wesson has been a unit of American Outdoor Brands Corporation since 2016.

Snake45 · 11-14-2019, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csmkersh

Here we go again.

Smith & Wesson had been previously owned by Bangor Punta and Tomkins LLC before being acquired by Saf-T-Hammer Corporation in 2001. Smith & Wesson has been a unit of American Outdoor Brands Corporation since 2016.

The vast majority of my S&Ws are Bangor Puntas. I think only three are post-1987. Maybe two. And two are pre-1965.

Doughboy · 11-14-2019, 06:43 PM

To All,

IF S&W "management" was SMART (frankly, I question their "brains".), they would move lock, stock & barrel to ARKANSAS, LOUISIANA, OKLAHOMA or TEXAS.

yours, sw

WaltGraham · 11-15-2019, 04:24 AM

And some of these folks are looking at what just happened to Remington...

spwenger · 11-17-2019, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doughboy

To All,

IF S&W "management" was SMART (frankly, I question their "brains".), they would move lock, stock & barrel to ARKANSAS, LOUISIANA, OKLAHOMA or TEXAS.

yours, sw

...who used to be employed by S&W told me more than once that S&W's problem is that the company is run by people who play a mean game of golf but aren't shooters.

Doughboy · 11-17-2019, 01:13 PM

spwenger,

SOUNDS about 100% CORRECT to me. = When Philadelphia-Reading Corp bought out Lone Star Steel Company, the "new management" had the SAME problem & DESTROYED the MOST profitable private company in NE Texas in just about 2 years by making DUMB-bunny decisions.

ALL that is left of LSS is Specialty Tubing Division that makes VERY specialized (READ: expensive) metal tubing/small diameter pipe for the "oil patch" & frame parts for two VERY HIGH-END Italian carmakers.

yours, sw

GunGeek · 11-22-2019, 01:55 PM

Just an observation on the timing. They announced this the day before SCOTUS refused to hear the Remington case. S&W is in the same appellate district. So something tells me S&W will be for sale VERY soon. ANY gun company in that district is unlikely to survive the new legal challenges. I expect Remington will shut their doors in 3-4 years.

TommyGunn · 11-22-2019, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GunGeek

Just an observation on the timing. They announced this the day before SCOTUS refused to hear the Remington case. S&W is in the same appellate district. So something tells me S&W will be for sale VERY soon. ANY gun company in that district is unlikely to survive the new legal challenges. I expect Remington will shut their doors in 3-4 years.

Ouch! I sincerely hope not! They just moved to Huntsville Alabama -- a 30 minute drive from me. I know their future seems rocky .... but I hope they make it.

threefeathers · 11-22-2019, 10:21 PM

This is terrible news. They have tried hard and succeeded in developing a very good line of firearms. Gad I wish I could win a huge Powerball and I would buy the company.

DavidE · 12-15-2019, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GunGeek

Just an observation on the timing. They announced this the day before SCOTUS refused to hear the Remington case. S&W is in the same appellate district. So something tells me S&W will be for sale VERY soon. ANY gun company in that district is unlikely to survive the new legal challenges. I expect Remington will shut their doors in 3-4 years.

Sadly, I see a big point there in the Remington references. If Remington makes it, they may decide to move. If that happens, the politicos will be chasing some serious industry away from their area.

This may also have something to do with Colt's recent announcement that they will no longer be building AR-15s for civilian sales. (There may also be an argument that the other makers are flooding the market.)

GunGeek · 12-16-2019, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidE

Sadly, I see a big point there in the Remington references. If Remington makes it, they may decide to move. If that happens, the politicos will be chasing some serious industry away from their area.

This may also have something to do with Colt's recent announcement that they will no longer be building AR-15s for civilian sales. (There may also be an argument that the other makers are flooding the market.)

Maybe...
Colt's announcement that they were suspending AR15 manufacture came the same week they got a big government order for M4's, so that announcement could just be related to their manufacturing capacity and giving priority to their military orders (I'm hoping). But it certainly could be due to the Appellate decision.

11-14-2019, 02:46 PM	#1
DavidE Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,190	Smith & Wesson: Breaking up's not hard to do? It looks like Smith and Wesson is being "Spun off." I would watch very carefully to see if S&W was being loaded with the Parent Company's Debt. That was the move Daimler pulled with Chrysler when they bought Chrysler, took the Chrysler commercial van designs, then loaded all the debt from the one big company on the Chrysler before spinning it back off. In 2008, the results of that showed when Chrysler had to ask the U.S. Government for a bailout. (Mr. Lee Iacocca must not have been pleased to hear about that. He built Chrysler into a heck of a company before he left in the early 1990s.) The second worrisome detail is people not wanting to deal with banking issues from being in the firearm business. There is a heavy smell of New York City and State financial thuggery in the air with that. https://www.ft.com/content/2a51b7c4-...a-d9e2401fa7ca <https://www.ft.com/content/2a51b7c4-065c-11ea-9afa-d9e2401fa7ca> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ameri...183540726.html <https://finance.yahoo.com/news/american-outdoor-brands-investors-react-183540726.html> https://www.bizjournals.com/boston/n...ts-in-two.html <https://www.bizjournals.com/boston/news/2019/11/13/smith-wesson-parent-company-splits-in-two.html>

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11-14-2019, 05:19 PM	#2
csmkersh Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 10,764	Here we go again. Smith & Wesson had been previously owned by Bangor Punta and Tomkins LLC before being acquired by Saf-T-Hammer Corporation in 2001. Smith & Wesson has been a unit of American Outdoor Brands Corporation since 2016.

11-14-2019, 06:43 PM	#4
Doughboy Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 534	To All, IF S&W "management" was SMART (frankly, I question their "brains".), they would move lock, stock & barrel to ARKANSAS, LOUISIANA, OKLAHOMA or TEXAS. yours, sw

11-15-2019, 04:24 AM	#5
WaltGraham Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Shenandoah Valley Posts: 3,906	And some of these folks are looking at what just happened to Remington...

11-17-2019, 01:13 PM	#7
Doughboy Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 534	spwenger, SOUNDS about 100% CORRECT to me. = When Philadelphia-Reading Corp bought out Lone Star Steel Company, the "new management" had the SAME problem & DESTROYED the MOST profitable private company in NE Texas in just about 2 years by making DUMB-bunny decisions. ALL that is left of LSS is Specialty Tubing Division that makes VERY specialized (READ: expensive) metal tubing/small diameter pipe for the "oil patch" & frame parts for two VERY HIGH-END Italian carmakers. yours, sw

11-22-2019, 01:55 PM	#8
GunGeek Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Northern NV Posts: 771	Just an observation on the timing. They announced this the day before SCOTUS refused to hear the Remington case. S&W is in the same appellate district. So something tells me S&W will be for sale VERY soon. ANY gun company in that district is unlikely to survive the new legal challenges. I expect Remington will shut their doors in 3-4 years.

11-22-2019, 10:21 PM	#10
threefeathers Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: AZ Posts: 1,181	This is terrible news. They have tried hard and succeeded in developing a very good line of firearms. Gad I wish I could win a huge Powerball and I would buy the company.