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Old 08-26-2005, 03:52 PM   #1
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CHL kills attacker in Wal-Mart

Well, not 'zactly the CHL. A good man with a CHL and his handgun did. Our (Albuquerque NM) first serious concealed handgun incident is a looking good so far:

Friday, August 26, 2005

Attacker Shot to Death at Wal-Mart

By Lloyd Jojola
Journal Staff Writer
A Wal-Mart customer who saw a female employee being stabbed Thursday pulled out a gun and shot the attacker, according to police.
The violence erupted shortly after 5 p.m. at the Wal-Mart Supercenter at 301 San Mateo SE, leaving the attacker dead and the woman with multiple stab wounds, police said.
The victim and her attacker were believed to have been "domestically involved"— such as married or ex-spouses, police spokeswoman Trish Hoffman said.
The shooter had a concealed-carry gun permit, Hoffman said.
The shooter was detained for questioning, she said.
"Right now, it appears, from what witnesses are corroborating, it looks like it may be justified. None of that is confirmed yet," Hoffman said.
----------------------

NM has about 4000 CHLs so far. Most are for men over 50. The CHL customer was 72 yrs old. He is also an unpaid volunteer w APD's Cold Case unit.

The woman is 46 and was working behind the counter when her 54 year old ex-husband attacked her. He had a history of domestic violence. She had a restraining oder. She is in critical but stable condition as of today.

NM CHL guns can't be carried anywhere that is licensed to dispense liquor. This Wal-Mart is one of the few here that does not sell beer/wine. If a store is not posted "no guns", we can assume by law it is OK to carry unless told otherwise.

That Wal-Mart is not posted, so we can and do CCW there. The store mgr will not answer questions on Wal-Mart's CCW policy. She refers all to the corporate office. We are now waiting to see if any signs go up.
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Old 08-26-2005, 05:49 PM   #2
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It's odd how these things get reported. I heard this on a radio news break as: "An argument turned deadly when a man was shot to death in a Walmart store....". The blurb was all of about 8 seconds long and left one with the distinct impression that a couple of extra chromosome carrying rednecks used gunplay to decide who should get the last 12 pack of Charmin. There was no mention of the original assault.
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Old 08-26-2005, 05:56 PM   #3
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Wuzzy, was you listenin' to NPR again?
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Old 08-26-2005, 06:31 PM   #4
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I used to listen to Amy Goodman's Democracy Now program but I would find myself, for hours afterward, in the thrall of uncontrollable twitching and coprolalic outbusts, suggestive of Tourette Syndrome.

I had to lay off.
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Old 08-26-2005, 07:13 PM   #5
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The incident got mentioned in prime time on Fox News tonight. Seemed to be a straight recitation of the story, not unfavorable to our side.
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Old 08-26-2005, 09:11 PM   #6
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The Washington Post has it too. Of course, they write as much about the other bad shooting as this good one.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01713.html
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Old 08-28-2005, 09:32 AM   #7
 
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I don't care if they write about the bad shootings, so long as they give a straight report of the good ones, too. That way, it becomes obvious that guns are just tools, not crime-in-a-can.

IOW

People use weapons to commit some crimes. Guns are weapons, so some crimes will likely be committed with guns. It's a fact of life; not a cause-and-effect relationship.

On the other hand.

People sometimes use weapons to stop criminals from committing crimes. Guns are weapons, so some crimes will be stopped with guns. Once again, it's a fact of life; not a cause-and-effect relationship.

There's only one cause-and-effect relationship that can really be reached about guns and crime:

Criminals disobey laws. Make guns illegal, and they won't care. Therefore, crimes will still be committed with guns.

Law-abiding citizens obey laws. Make guns illegal, and they won't have guns. Therefore, make guns illegal, and fewer crimes will be stopped with guns.

Or there's the other option: Look at freakin' Britain.
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Old 08-28-2005, 09:35 AM   #8
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http://www.ambackforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=24290
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Old 08-29-2005, 09:08 PM   #9
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One of my closest friends was in the parking lot of that Wal-Mart when all that happened. He said a wittness saw the 72 year old man jump over the deli counter, pull his gun and go to work. That's thrid hand information and I doubt it's all that accurate, but it sure makes for a good story.

My buddy was at first concerned that it was a bad shooting, but when he heard the circumstances, he called me right away because him and I had been following the pissin-contest in the NM courts over the CHL law.

Well, here's life saved number 1 of what I'm sure will be many.
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Old 08-30-2005, 09:42 AM   #10
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Excellent editorial supporting CCW in todays Journal (8/30/05):

http://www.abqjournal.com/opinion/edito ... -30-05.htm

"Instead of resorting to deadly force, perhaps Moore could have saved the deli worker's life by bludgeoning her assailant with a smoked ham. Maybe other shoppers would have leaped into action to disarm the man. Maybe they, like the victims of the 2003 triple homicide, would have died or been injured in the attempt. And maybe opponents vastly overstated the dangers of concealed carry to law-abiding citizens."
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Old 08-30-2005, 10:02 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busted Shaft
And maybe opponents vastly overstated the dangers of concealed carry to law-abiding citizens.
WHAAAAAAAAA-HOO!

Do ya think?!?

How 'bout those unfortunate women in the truck at the intersection in Sash, Texas yesterday? And the local po'leece comment was: "They were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.." Isn't that special?! Thank you, Fannin County Sheriff Kenneth Moore!

What I'm most interested in at this point, Mike, is what was the Editorial posture of the Albuquerque Journal (by subscription only, you maroon!) prior to this intervening Armed Citizen event? Change of tune or consistent with prior position.
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Old 08-30-2005, 10:09 AM   #12
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If the Sash, Tx, shootings had occurred This coming Thursday, Sept 1, those women could have most likely kept a handgun in the truck legally. Texas law and our "traveling" definition changes then. They could have had a shotgun or rifle already and be within the law. Texas hasn't managed to get rid of all the "reconstruction" nonsense enacted in the 1870s, but we're working at it.
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Old 08-30-2005, 10:35 AM   #13
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Maroon? Does that mean the link didn't work? oops. Thought I did that right...

"Anyone is free to make one copy for personal use. This can include one photocopy, one printed copy, one email copy, or posting an HTML link (without text or photos). This includes use by a student for an academic purpose. Click on the article title above to go back to the article. From there, you can print (or use) the content as described here."

It's consistent w prior position. The Journal supported the legislation that created our current CHL system. The other paper, the Tribune, did not.
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Old 08-30-2005, 10:40 AM   #14
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Okay, "<---//--<<<," we'll have to take your word for it. Please keep us apprised of what the other [s]rag[/s] medium in town editorialized!
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Old 08-30-2005, 10:47 AM   #15
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This article shows that a least one person at the Tribune is pro-CCW or at least willing to print a pro-gun letter. Other than the initial report of the shooting, the Trib has been silent.
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Old 08-30-2005, 10:51 AM   #16
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I usually shoot 'em this way: >>>>----/--->

Steve's piece was an oped; he isn't on staff.

The Trib has printed a few pro gun letters/opeds in the past.

A staffer did do an article on "pocketbook protection" after the law that was OK:

July 9, 2004
POCKETBOOK PROTECTION

About 9 percent of New Mexicans seeking to carry concealed weapons are women. The reasons for wanting a gun vary, and though some say they ultimately may not use it, they like the security having it ---- and knowing how to use it ---- brings.

Paulette Taylor cups the ivory handle adorned with a yellow rose on the 4-inch handgun she's pulled from a satin-lined box that says "Lady Derringer."

The gun is almost dainty looking, but it just doesn't feel...
-------------

The Tribune, so far, is ignoring this incident as much as possible.

I took the Tribune's managing editor (who looks waaaaay better than her picture BTW) to a gun show, and she did a fair and balanced article about it.

I showed up at a Tribune "kitchen cabinet" meeting for readers packing a concealed Glock, and she had no problem w that at all.

It's the others there that were hoplophobic. They did not ask, I did not tell.
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Old 09-03-2005, 09:07 AM   #17
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According to range personnel where he shoots who have talked to him, he used a Springfield Armory XD9 compact w 115g Silvertips. Multiple shots fired, all hits.
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