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Old 09-22-2005, 08:44 PM   #1
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Night Vision Question

Yeah,
I feel like Darth Vader asking this, but here goes. Local gunstore owner pulls me in back, turns out lights, and says "look through this scope". I did, saw everything pretty well in a green color. First time I had used Night Vision. WOW!
Anybody know anything about an NVRS Generation 1 Night Vision scope? All I know is what I saw, First Gen, not third, optics. Made in Russia. Priced <$500.00. Quiet. Decent vision, but i have no benchmark to guide me. Mount seemed a little on the weak side, it was a quick-on/off type, but only used one claw. Thanks for the help. The Darth in me would grin like a kid caught stealing his brothers lunch money if the thing was to find a home on my M14
I just wondered if there was better available, even if the price was more. Or if the sucker was good enough to play with for a few years. Thanks for the help.......Kerry
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Old 09-22-2005, 10:55 PM   #2
 
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OK Dokie Darth (LOL )

I'm gonna give ya' what I THINK. I've seen good scopes and I have seen good night vision. I Have NOT seen "good night vision scopes" for anywhere near the $500 price tag. My LIMITED EXPERIENCES are further hampered in the fact that I must admit I have not even looked for or at this realm of sci-fi tech for my guns in at least 6 or 7 years. BUT FWIW.... Generation 1 nightvision IIRC was from the VIETNAM era..... I know the tech HAS come a long way but the prices are (or at least were) far outta the range of the $500 mark. I think were in Generation III or IV now....and that should say it all right there.

If you're gonna do it- I'd investigate further. That $500 will buy another gun, a rather decent "regular" scope or BOTH. But it is your money. If you're looking for a toy to put on a .22 to plink night raiding raccons- I think the scope would flip the bill- but there ARE cheaper and better alternatives.

Just my $0.02

Metalhead
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Old 09-23-2005, 06:24 AM   #3
 
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Frst gen NVDs are active emitters.

That is, they require a light source. It's just that the light source is not visible to the naked eye - IR.

What this means is that you can see as far as that "invisible" light takes you. They make IR filtering lenses that go on about every kind of white light out there, to get you farther.

Someone else, looking through NVDs of any generation though, would see you as a mobile lighthouse. Imagine walking around at night with a flashlight on..... that's how you look to anyone else with NVDs.

The later generations (especially 3rd) are not active emitters, they're passive, and require no "light" like what I'm talking about.

Getcha some PVS-14s. That's my next "big buy". You should be able to pick 'em up for somewhere beween $3K and $3.3K.
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Old 09-23-2005, 12:52 PM   #4
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Ugh, Hack, Cough, Puke.....
Sorry, that is my reaction to 3500 for any scope. Hell, a good M3 Leu is not 1/2 that much. I understand about the emitting of IR, but I aint going to be battling the evil Hun, I hope
Just thought it would be a fun rat killing toy for my M14, and decent practice. I have since seen their gen 2 model, almost 2 grand. I thought gen3 stuff was restricted to active duty or feds? Is gen1 or gen2 accurate enough to hold a rat or a dog at 200 meters? Thanks! Technology is fun
Kerry
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Old 09-23-2005, 02:50 PM   #5
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I have got a nice NV- Scope for sale, PM or Email me for details,

I have pictures

Casual.
-Mike-
 
Old 09-23-2005, 04:37 PM   #6
 
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Kerry, no problem on the reaction. I got a first-hand education in some of this stuff. What it can do is amazing. Feel good that I didn't recommend a Raptor for your purpose...... it's roughly double the price of the PVS 14

I hear you on that M3 Lupita as well. Good scope, and what I keep on my long range stick. I didn't pay near half of that for mine, and it's a PR mildot.

Think of it another way. 1st generation you can see as far as you can shine that light. 2nd gen you can see some without the flashlight, but to get farther you need one. Third gen is ambient light only (normally) to farther than you can read windage to hit. The resolution on the 3rd gen is amazing. I could see the line where the BDU shirt buttoned "out there". Gen 2+ is a great way to go, a compromise of bucks versus performance.

On the '14, if you're going to mount it, you're going to have fun. Without an adjustable cheek piece, you're craning all over. With a cheek piece, it's better, but still not great. I've got a McMillan M3A stock with the adjustable cheek piece. It works, and works well, but nowhere as comfortable as their M1A stock and irons when laying out for an extended time.

Gen 3 isn't restricted. They've moved on.

I think the trick to using the older NVDs at 200 would be what you could see, and being able to illuminate that far out. The "long range" night time CQB target I recently went up against was at 75 yards. I could make it out with my light, and hit it. I'm thinking I couldn't have seen it at 200, but don't know that for a fact. Making out shapes, especially still ones, in low light at distance isn't easy. Getting your iron sights on them is more difficult.

Hope it helps
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Old 09-23-2005, 05:12 PM   #7
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NVD

Thanks Bravo. Sounds like you've had some "interesting times"
I have a Sadlack cheeckpiece on the ole M14 now. With my large head, I can do alright, just barely if prone. I sort of prefer a M-1 Garand.
Take care, and thanks for the info.
Kerry
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Old 12-25-2005, 09:32 AM   #8
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FYI...PVS-2 is around the 500 mark and it is sufficient under starlight alone to see out about 200yds for nighttime hunting of game, (if one gets really hungry). Ofcourse it is obsolete as a combat NVS but it can help 'own the night' when necessary. A laser beam will help get you zeroed quickly at around 200 yds. Also, that Viet Nam-era scope, although heavy at 7 pounds, is very weather and temperature proof, has no inferior Russian tubes and is considered Gen 1.5. Sometimes I use it to scan the skies for 'fast walkers' during the dark, very cold nights, i.e., the 'dash-two' can go down to minus 60 degrees F. It requires 4AA Batts for most of the re-conditioned units being offered for sale. Most prefer those surplused from the pacific theater, rather than those from the Israel desert zone due to some contaminates. Look into "Shot Gun News", or google: PVS-2. There are two mounts offered, one for the 14, and one for the 15. The alcan mount fits well to the picatinny mount, but as been stated, overall, the scope system rides way high. Therefore, I have found because of that, and the great weight, it is necessary to brace the rifle up to a tree, rock, etc., in order to maintain a steady scan and/or shot. The internal 'cross hair' isn't, but rather a 'chevron' that is very difficult to see, so one must concentrate for finding it. Since the vision is good out to the horizon, (and clear), I have found that by first finding th target then by raising the scope to the sky and then lowering it down into the terrain onto the target helps me find target acqusition quickly. In addition, I use a mini-mag flashlight with an I.r. lense that mounts to the side that acts as an amazing flood light. It can be seen by the naked eye as a bright red spot at 200 yds., but I doubt that game food is too spooked, at least they don't show it. The ufos don't seem to mind either, LOL
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Old 12-28-2005, 07:55 PM   #9
 
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A reconditioned AN/PVS-2 is a very good scope. The only down side is the BA-1100/U battery is $30. It lasts for 100-150 hours of use. Which you won't use before it's shelf life is up. 2 years max. To keep a few for bad times gets expensive.
You will need the adapter for AA batts and lots of rechargables.

If anyone knows where to find the AA adapter let me know. I'm looking for one.
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