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Old 05-06-2015, 09:47 AM   #41
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"We have a right to murder anyone who hurts our feelings."

"Um...no you don't".

And the "No you don'ts" are a "hate group" and "a-holes"?

This just boggles the mind.
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Old 05-06-2015, 10:04 AM   #42
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"We have a right to murder anyone who hurts our feelings."

"Um...no you don't".

And the "No you don'ts" are a "hate group" and "a-holes"?

This just boggles the mind.
Yes they are, plain and simple. They were engaging in a lawful activity and well within their rights. But they are a hate group. Their beef is with Islam...not Islamic extremists, but all Islam. To me at least, that's a hate group. Anyone who is unable to discern the actions of 20-40 thousand hardcore extremists against a billion Muslims who are not out killing people, they're closed minded a-holes. Again, I'll fight for their right to free speech. I don't like what they were doing, but I'll fight for their right to do it.

Given the track record in France, one could even call what they did incitement. Again, not justifying what the extremists did (and they got their just reward).

I have no sympathy for terrorists, but I also don't any sympathy for the SOB's who put on that little shindig. I feel sympathy for those who were victims of the terrorists and the cop who put them down.
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Old 05-06-2015, 10:36 AM   #43
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One group:
Believes anyone who doesn't believe in their God deserves to die.
Incinerates people in office buildings.
Recruits children to carry suicide bombs.
Kidnaps, rapes, and sells young girls.
Kidnaps, rapes, and forces young boys to fight for them.
Buries people up to their necks and bashes their brains out with stones.
Beheads hostages slowly and cruelly, then distributes the videos.
Engages in slavery.

Another group:
Draws cartoons.

Name the hate group.
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Old 05-06-2015, 12:22 PM   #44
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I can hear the anti's now: "Here's proof that no one needs 'assault rifles'--handguns are sufficient".
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Old 05-06-2015, 08:26 PM   #45
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Yes they are, plain and simple. They were engaging in a lawful activity and well within their rights. But they are a hate group. Their beef is with Islam...not Islamic extremists, but all Islam. To me at least, that's a hate group. Anyone who is unable to discern the actions of 20-40 thousand hardcore extremists against a billion Muslims who are not out killing people, they're closed minded a-holes. Again, I'll fight for their right to free speech. I don't like what they were doing, but I'll fight for their right to do it.

Given the track record in France, one could even call what they did incitement. Again, not justifying what the extremists did (and they got their just reward).

I have no sympathy for terrorists, but I also don't any sympathy for the SOB's who put on that little shindig. I feel sympathy for those who were victims of the terrorists and the cop who put them down.
The problem is "all Islam" regards drawing images of their prophet to be blasphemous, no matter the context. But only a portion of those who practice Islam, the Jihadis whom we're fighting, will kill you for it ....unless (I suppose) you do it in Saudia Arabia.
There are some depictions of Jesus Christ, such as the image of him in a jar of urine, that offend me, the image of Mary made out of cow dung, and other disdainful representations in that kind. That provokes me to irratibility ... or to sadness, depending on my general mood at the time, but I have never believed I have the right to kill the artist who created such images.
But there are also images of Christ I think are acceptable, some are nice, some are beautiful, some are even inspired.
Bill O'Reilly gave a "talking point" on this subject Tuesday May 5th and pointed out while he defends the right of this woman to hold this Mohamud cartoon contest he thought it was wrong to do because it provokes Islam at a time when some of the Islamic countries are starting to actually fight Isis. Well, he did have a good point
Would I do it? Well, honestly, I am a very poor cartoonist and am barely able to create stick figures. But no, I wouldn't; but I also do not agree that any image of Mohamud is sacrilige -- any more than any image of Jesus is.
I do disagree that this was a "hate group." Using bad tactics or strategies does not make for a hate group IMHO. I save the term "hate group" for groups like the K K K, skinheads, Neo-Nazis, Black Panthers, and other similar groups with whom I not only disagree, but whom I would fear to disagree with while being in their company .

I also have this instinctive desire to dislike the idea of kow-towing to people or to groups because something that I (or "we") have every right to do BUT which for some reason offends their sensibilities. It seems a way that, should it becomes habit, will prove a good way for one group to gain control over another.
All that however must be balanced by consideration of how wise it is to use poorly considered tactics against a small subset of a group when you are trying to persuade the larger set to stand up and denounce the smaller bad group and fight against them, and also, that just going around causing other people offense is insenstive, stupid, and...well, yes, I'll say it; unChristian.

Last edited by TommyGunn; 05-07-2015 at 06:50 AM.
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Old 05-07-2015, 08:31 AM   #46
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CaptainGyro,

You are 100% CORRECT. - Furthermore, most of the "broadcast news" about the cartoon exhibit came straight from the so-called Southern Poverty Law Center, which is a bunch of radical leftist & RICH shyster lawyers who "lie like rugs" on every subject.

The Islamist radicals need to "just get over it", as normal people laugh AT their "sensitivity" about silly cartoons.

yours, satx
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Old 05-07-2015, 10:13 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainGyro View Post
One group:
Believes anyone who doesn't believe in their God deserves to die.
Incinerates people in office buildings.
Recruits children to carry suicide bombs.
Kidnaps, rapes, and sells young girls.
Kidnaps, rapes, and forces young boys to fight for them.
Buries people up to their necks and bashes their brains out with stones.
Beheads hostages slowly and cruelly, then distributes the videos.
Engages in slavery.

Another group:
Draws cartoons.

Name the hate group.
Muslim extremists. Not all Muslims.
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Old 05-07-2015, 10:29 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by TommyGunn View Post
The problem is "all Islam" regards drawing images of their prophet to be blasphemous, no matter the context. But only a portion of those who practice Islam, the Jihadis whom we're fighting, will kill you for it ....unless (I suppose) you do it in Saudia Arabia.
Let’s be clear here…”all islam” considers it blasphemous, but that’s not the “problem”, that’s just religion. Hell, there are things that every religion find blasphemous. The “problem” is when you start killing people over the blasphemy. THAT is the problem.


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There are some depictions of Jesus Christ, such as the image of him in a jar of urine, that offend me, the image of Mary made out of cow dung, and other disdainful representations in that kind. That provokes me to irratibility ... or to sadness, depending on my general mood at the time, but I have never believed I have the right to kill the artist who created such images.
Agreed, I find that blasphemous, and if I were an atheist I’d at least find it very distasteful. But yeah, you don’t kill people over it. Again my beef isn’t with Islam, it’s with psychotic Islamic extremists who are so incredibly insecure they have to kill over free speech. I don’t think those idiots understand how small, weak, and petty that makes “their god” look in the eyes of normal humans.

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But there are also images of Christ I think are acceptable, some are nice, some are beautiful, some are even inspired.
Yeah, I agree. It’s just a difference in their religion. I think I read that the Koran really doesn’t say that ALL images of Mohammed are blasphemous, just certain types. Yet the extremist idiots are incapable of making such distinctions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyGunn View Post
Bill O'Reilly gave a "talking point" on this subject Tuesday May 5th and pointed out while he defends the right of this woman to hold this Mohamud cartoon contest he thought it was wrong to do because it provokes Islam at a time when some of the Islamic countries are starting to actually fight Isis. Well, he did have a good point
I’d have to agree with Bill on that one. While I will be the first to take up arms to defend their right to do what they did, I don’t think what they did was the smartest thing in the world. I mean on some visceral level I agree with it, kind of an in your face, “hey we’ll do whatever the hell we want to do in OUR country”. Then on the other side, it clearly was an inflammatory act, and adults ought to know better.

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Originally Posted by TommyGunn View Post
Would I do it? Well, honestly, I am a very poor cartoonist and am barely able to create stick figures. But no, I wouldn't; but I also do not agree that any image of Mohamud is sacrilige -- any more than any image of Jesus is.
I actually love the winning cartoon, but more for what it says, rather than the drawing itself. As to whether it’s a sacrilege or not, I can’t make any determination on that, I’m not a Koranic scholar.

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Originally Posted by TommyGunn View Post
I do disagree that this was a "hate group." Using bad tactics or strategies does not make for a hate group IMHO. I save the term "hate group" for groups like the K K K, skinheads, Neo-Nazis, Black Panthers, and other similar groups with whom I not only disagree, but whom I would fear to disagree with while being in their company .
Well I look at the history of that group beyond this one incident, and they are just plain anti Islam. They almost never make any distinction between mainstream Islam across the world and the extremists. There are some pretty sketchy things in the Bible, yet modern Christians and Jews don’t practice them (things like putting to death a child who back talks his parents, etc.). They single out the Koran is being the fault, rather than the practitioners of what it says. Well you can find very terrible things in the Bible, but the practitioners have moved past it. Over a billion living Muslims have moved past what’s in the Koran, yet this group condemns them all. They’re a hate group. No they’re not as visceral and obvious as the Klan, Nation of Islam, Neo Nazi’s or Black Panthers, but they’re a hate group nonetheless.

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I also have this instinctive desire to dislike the idea of kow-towing to people or to groups because something that I (or "we") have every right to do BUT which for some reason offends their sensibilities. It seems a way that, should it becomes habit, will prove a good way for one group to gain control over another.
All that however must be balanced by consideration of how wise it is to use poorly considered tactics against a small subset of a group when you are trying to persuade the larger set to stand up and denounce the smaller bad group and fight against them, and also, that just going around causing other people offense is insenstive, stupid, and...well, yes, I'll say it; unChristian.
Yeah, I’m kinda with you there.
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Old 05-07-2015, 10:30 AM   #49
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KevinGibson,

Tell us: HOW MANY Moslem IMAMS & other LEADERS have OPENLY & consistently CONDEMNED the 1-3% of Moslems who are TERRORISTS and/or support the violent "idiot fringe".
(Offhand, I can think of NONE who have.)

UNTIL/UNLESS the MAJORITY of Moslems starts to OPENLY condemning the terrorist fringe, I'll believe that they either are unconcerned about or approve of terrorism. Also the majority could just be afflicted with a WIDE YELLOW STRIPE down the spine.
(If my church's reputation was being sullied by a few creeps, our own members would be LOUDLY condemning them & would EXPELL the criminal element from the church.).

yours, sw

Last edited by stand watie; 05-07-2015 at 10:33 AM. Reason: add
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Old 05-07-2015, 10:37 AM   #50
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The Islamist radicals need to "just get over it", as normal people laugh AT their "sensitivity" about silly cartoons.

yours, satx
That's the part they just don't get. They just don't seem to get how small that makes both them and their god look. You telling me your god is so petty and insecure that you can't make a joke about how one of his prophets look? Really? God, the almighty God, creator of all things is hyper sensitive and can't take a joke...that's not even a joke about him?

Now me personally, I have more respect for EVERYONE'S religion than to do something I KNOW would deeply offend them. But clearly there are those with a lesser sense of manners. Guess what, we live in a world full of people with lesser manners, and just plain arse-holes. If you can't learn to deal with that, you're going to have a VERY rough time in life.

I don't condone spitting on someone's religion. But these idiots need to grow the f--- up!!!
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Old 05-07-2015, 12:42 PM   #51
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You telling me your god is so petty and insecure that you can't make a joke about how one of his prophets look? Really? God, the almighty God, creator of all things is hyper sensitive and can't take a joke...that's not even a joke about him?
You're on the right track here, you just need to follow it a bit further.

Why is there a fatwa on the author of The Satanic Verses? Because the premise of the book was that some of the verses of the Koran were dictated to Mohammed by Satan. Why is that deserving of death? Because it calls into question the entire foundation of the faith. Wouldn't an omniscient, all powerful God be able to shrug that off? I'd think so, but...
maybe this is a better analogy.
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Old 05-07-2015, 01:00 PM   #52
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KevinGibson,

EXACTLY. - Further, my advice is to HANG every single terrorist that we catch & as SOON as possible after they are convicted.
(I was stationed in a country where the murderers & child molesters usually "had a date with the hangman" within 3 days of conviction. = The "sensitive types", who are against capitol punishment, have never lived in a place where the sentence was quickly carried out. QUICK execution of sentence deters other murders/molestations.)

yours, sw
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Old 05-07-2015, 01:14 PM   #53
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KevinGibson,

Tell us: HOW MANY Moslem IMAMS & other LEADERS have OPENLY & consistently CONDEMNED the 1-3% of Moslems who are TERRORISTS and/or support the violent "idiot fringe".
(Offhand, I can think of NONE who have.)

UNTIL/UNLESS the MAJORITY of Moslems starts to OPENLY condemning the terrorist fringe, I'll believe that they either are unconcerned about or approve of terrorism. Also the majority could just be afflicted with a WIDE YELLOW STRIPE down the spine.
(If my church's reputation was being sullied by a few creeps, our own members would be LOUDLY condemning them & would EXPELL the criminal element from the church.).

yours, sw
There have been countless; but it doesn't get reported her very often. Mostly because in the US, it's not really news.
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Old 05-07-2015, 01:15 PM   #54
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You're on the right track here, you just need to follow it a bit further.

Why is there a fatwa on the author of The Satanic Verses? Because the premise of the book was that some of the verses of the Koran were dictated to Mohammed by Satan. Why is that deserving of death? Because it calls into question the entire foundation of the faith. Wouldn't an omniscient, all powerful God be able to shrug that off? I'd think so, but...
maybe this is a better analogy.
Yeah, you said it. It follows absolutely NO logic.
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Old 05-07-2015, 01:22 PM   #55
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KevinGibson,

EXACTLY. - Further, my advice is to HANG every single terrorist that we catch & as SOON as possible after they are convicted.
(I was stationed in a country where the murderers & child molesters usually "had a date with the hangman" within 3 days of conviction. = The "sensitive types", who are against capitol punishment, have never lived in a place where the sentence was quickly carried out. QUICK execution of sentence deters other murders/molestations.)

yours, sw
Well you're never going to get that kind of capital punishment here in the US, so it's just a dream. And I wouldn't want a system like that anyhow, look at how many people were let off of life sentences and death row just last year. Took one guy 37 years for them to get it right...he'd be dead, along with a boat load of others who turned out to be innocent. Criminal justice is an inexact science, so it makes more sense that we take the effort to be more thorough than the 3rd world banana republics. They don't even execute that fast in Saudi Arabia.

But a terrorist who is actively engaging in terrorism, in my book doesn't deserve capital punishment; he should be dead long before the courts are ever an issue.
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Old 05-07-2015, 01:38 PM   #56
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Yeah, you said it. It follows absolutely NO logic.
Actually it does... you just have to figure out who is behind the curtain.
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Old 05-07-2015, 02:48 PM   #57
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I can hear the anti's now: "Here's proof that no one needs 'assault rifles'--handguns are sufficient".
My spin on it is kind of opposite: So much for all the nonsense about the cops being "undergunned."
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Old 05-07-2015, 02:52 PM   #58
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My spin on it is kind of opposite: So much for all the nonsense about the cops being "undergunned."
This, that or something else equally nonsensical...
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Old 05-07-2015, 03:30 PM   #59
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Well I look at the history of that group beyond this one incident, and they are just plain anti Islam. They almost never make any distinction between mainstream Islam across the world and the extremists. There are some pretty sketchy things in the Bible, yet modern Christians and Jews don’t practice them (things like putting to death a child who back talks his parents, etc.). They single out the Koran is being the fault, rather than the practitioners of what it says. Well you can find very terrible things in the Bible, but the practitioners have moved past it. Over a billion living Muslims have moved past what’s in the Koran, yet this group condemns them all. They’re a hate group. No they’re not as visceral and obvious as the Klan, Nation of Islam, Neo Nazi’s or Black Panthers, but they’re a hate group nonetheless.
Unfortunatly, I don't know a great deal about this group. If they have "trashed Islam" simply for the sake of trashing it, then perhaps they're a borderline group. I have seen some interviews with the woman who was behind this particular contest and from what little I have gleaned, she seems to be simply pronouncing an agenda of resisting the spread of Islam and Sharia into America, which is happening in some minor ways. I have a hard time getting bothered by foot-washing stations in airports when Muslim activists want them, but some of the media seem far too ready to defend the more extreme elelments of the religion.
As far as the group "almost never make(ing) any distinction between mainstream Islam across the world and the extremists," They aren't the only people that do that. I've listened to some "talking heads" that will denounce the Islamists all day long and will only admit there is a difference if it is brought up by someone else.
I also, however, remember the videos of many in Islamic countries rejoicing in the aftermath of the 9/11/01 attack. Then there are organizations like CAIR which purport to be peaceful and interested only in furthering peaceful understanding between Islam and America, yet which many believe underhandedly support monetarily and otherwise the extremists case, to some degree. All of this surely muddies the issue for me, atleast.

Certainly the Christain Bible represents certain rather .... "nasty" .... actions, especially in the Old Testament, which was during Mosaic Law, which we don't follow today; a great many however are severely misunderstood and often misrepresented by today's scholars and especially other pundits who lack understanding and misinterpret the meaning of the scriptures.
The Ransom Sacrifice changed the concept of Biblical Law and atleast to those who understood and followed it at the time, put an end to what we might consider more violent aspects of the faith.
It was a very important reformation ..... I am not sufficiently familiar with Islam to know if the religion has undergone such a reformation ...but some of what I have heard of the Prophet Mohammed makes me think they really need one...

Last edited by TommyGunn; 05-07-2015 at 03:40 PM.
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Old 05-08-2015, 02:11 AM   #60
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Muslim extremists. Not all Muslims.
This bizarre idea that the vast majority of Muslims are not violent, and therefore should not be considered accountable in any way for the excesses of their faith, is not new. My Dad hunted down SS officers in Europe immediately after WWII, and he heard this "Good Nazi" argument all too often.

"Yes, I was a party member, but I didn't have anything to do with the atrocities. We heard the rhetoric, but we thought it was just that: talk. We saw our Jewish neighbors taken away, but we thought they were merely being relocated. We saw the Gypsies disappear, but they were kind of shiftless anyway. We heard that we were the Master Race, destined to rule the world, but didn't give it much more thought. Besides, what could I do? If I had protested, I would have disappeared too".

Modern Islam seems to want to hide behind the Good Nazi excuse. As long as someone else is doing the torturing and killing, it really isn't any of their business. Some contend privately that they don't agree with the violence, but very few organize protests. The Islamic countries that are just now taking up arms against the zealots were content to sit on the sidelines as long as their own oxen weren't being gored; only after the crazies became threats to their comfortable lifestyles did they come late to the struggle.

The Good Nazi muslims may have a valid point when they say that if they protest the violence they themselves will be targeted. But they can't claim the other Good Nazi excuse: that they don't know what's going on.
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