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Old 01-15-2015, 10:55 AM   #21
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WaltGraham,

I'll agree provided the following is included: "unless there are multiple incidents occurring at the same time".
(I fear that we are headed in that direction as the terrorists are learning, after every "active shooter event", from their mistakes.)

yours, satx
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Old 01-15-2015, 12:52 PM   #22
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True that. Sadly we are also seeing the absolute repudiation of the "Gun laws stop crime" thing, too, as the weapons used in France were almost certainly smuggled in from outside the country. (The Mediterranean is the most likely route, there are several places around the edges of that Sea where such weapons could be picked up.)

SW, I agree with your take. In a multiple shooters, multiple locations situation, the more defenders who can react quickly at different spots, the better. CCW is a key there, especially in defending likely terrorist targets.
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Old 01-15-2015, 01:16 PM   #23
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DavidE,

I truly wish that I was "a pessimist" but I fear I'm correct & soon LEO & military forces will be facing SEVERAL terrorists/groups of terrorists at several locations, simultaneously.

I all too well remember during the Watts riots, that we MPs had a completely unrelated "shooting incident" at a Los Angeles County military facility. We called for LAPD help & the first LAPD officer arrived over two hours later.
(THANKFULLY, a LAPWO officer was nearby. The PW arrived "packing a riot-gun" & several loads of 00 buckshot helped us end the incident W/O police death/injury & with "the active shooter" in custody.)

Note: At that time, our MP & DoD Police personnel had nothing but .38SPL revolvers at that facility, facing a shooter with a M-1 Carbine. - As a result of that incident, we were (years later) "allowed to have available" M16 rifles.

yours, sw

Last edited by stand watie; 01-15-2015 at 01:20 PM. Reason: missing word
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Old 01-15-2015, 04:12 PM   #24
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Quote:
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True that. Sadly we are also seeing the absolute repudiation of the "Gun laws stop crime" thing, too, as the weapons used in France were almost certainly smuggled in from outside the country. (The Mediterranean is the most likely route, there are several places around the edges of that Sea where such weapons could be picked up.)

SW, I agree with your take. In a multiple shooters, multiple locations situation, the more defenders who can react quickly at different spots, the better. CCW is a key there, especially in defending likely terrorist targets.
I heard a report on the news that the guns came from Belgium. which apprently is rather notorious for blackmarket guns. The blackmarket dealer who sold the terrorists the AKs has turned himself in to the local police, fearing that the Jihadis will come after him. Not sure why ....but hey, one blackmarketeer in jail, and out of the market: so much the better.
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Old 01-19-2015, 11:16 AM   #25
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One of the guys in one of the pictures had a bobbed VZ-58. VERY cool rifle, too bad it's in the hands of a murderous psychopath!
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Old 01-19-2015, 01:35 PM   #26
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Many years ago I was told terrorists follow a rehearsed pattern. The first step is to break the trained and practiced pattern. My first choice is a 9mm hollow point center of mass, but almost any counter attack can be effective. A barrage of beer steins delivered by the angry crowd at a Munich beer hall was credited with stopping one attack. The barmaid pounding the gunmans face with a two liter stein, completed the solution. (Per US Army training 1977-78.
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Old 01-19-2015, 01:56 PM   #27
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I miss the Cold War, when all we had to worry about was a nuclear holocaust.
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Old 01-19-2015, 02:58 PM   #28
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Two liters... really?

I'm pretty sure I never drank that much in one sitting... ever. Did drink three pints once in England but it was>10% and I had to be helped to the car...
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Old 01-19-2015, 04:11 PM   #29
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I miss the Cold War, when all we had to worry about was a nuclear holocaust.

Seriously, I hear you. I hear you....
It seems that atleast the tensions between the two superpowers kept the cockroaches from coming out and playing in the light .....
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Old 01-20-2015, 01:18 AM   #30
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Two liters... really?
I'm pretty sure I never drank that much in one sitting... ever. Did drink three pints once in England but it was>10% and I had to be helped to the car...
Obviously no Germans or Poles in your family tree.

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Old 01-20-2015, 08:19 AM   #31
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Seriously, I hear you. I hear you....
It seems that atleast the tensions between the two superpowers kept the cockroaches from coming out and playing in the light .....
Well the Soviets were VERY effective in keeping the Muslim crazies that were under their sphere of influence in line. And they had a LOT of Muslims behind the Iron Curtain.
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Old 01-20-2015, 08:37 AM   #32
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Well the Soviets were VERY effective in keeping the Muslim crazies that were under their sphere of influence in line. And they had a LOT of Muslims behind the Iron Curtain.
True there.
Did you know the former Soviet Union contained more religious denominations than any other country on earth? That seems contradictory given the Communists suppress religion. But the nation was soooooooo big that so long as the ...uh, "churchgoers" played very quietly amongst themselves they were left alone. They just couldn't run for office or join the Communist Party -- which you had to do, if you wanted to hold office.
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Old 01-20-2015, 01:00 PM   #33
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The Communists didn't completely suppress religion. The Russian Orthodox church was always allowed in very small numbers, as were Synogogues and Mosques. But they were very much pushed behind the scenes, and membership in the congregations was frowned upon. You're not going to get the cushy job if you're a member of a big church in the Soviet Union.
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Old 03-18-2015, 01:18 PM   #34
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A personal note: IF I found myself at a "mass shooting scene" & had nothing else, I'd look for a covered/concealed position & (at least) try to ambush the terrorist with a handgun.

(As our family lost members/close friends at the DAINGERFIELD CHURCH MASSACRE, I couldn't just "walk away".)
I agree with the ambush strategy. You don't see PUs with gun racks and .30-30s like when I was a kid. Would have to be a handgun.

It was a church shooting at convinced the Texas legislature to quietly change the CHL law and allow concealed carry if the church wasn't properly posted.
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Old 03-18-2015, 02:46 PM   #35
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Kevin Gibson,

Given the percentage of proficient hunters here in TX & in other States, a terrorist might well find himself/herself facing several civilians with scoped deer rifles, military rifles and/or shotguns.

A personal note: IF I found myself at a "mass shooting scene" & had nothing else, I'd look for a covered/concealed position & (at least) try to ambush the terrorist with a handgun.
(As our family lost members/close friends at the DAINGERFIELD CHURCH MASSACRE, I couldn't just "walk away".)

yours, sw
As I recall when Charles Whitman was sniping people from the Texas tower several citizens with deer rifles engaged him.
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Old 05-03-2015, 09:50 PM   #36
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Speaking of, tonight there was a shooting attack at a "Draw Mohammed Contest" in Texas.

Apparently, two attackers were shot dead by security guards after opening fire on the guards. Unfortunately one source below reports that one of the defenders was wounded. Obviously, there is more to come on this one.

Two gunmen 'carrying explosives' attack anti-Muslim art contest in Texas: Suspects dead and cop wounded at 'draw Muhammad' event that offered $10k prize | Daily Mail Online

BREAKING: Shooting At Muhammad Art Exhibit In Garland CBS Dallas / Fort Worth
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Old 05-04-2015, 05:36 AM   #37
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I saw it referred to as 'hunting over bait'. Thankfully the guard's wound is minor.
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Old 05-04-2015, 10:16 PM   #38
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To ALL,

The facts:
1. One UNARMED security guard "lightly wounded" & admitted to the local hospital,
2. One Garland city policeman "grazed" by a 7.62x39mm AK round, treated & released
and
2. TWO "AK-wielding terrorists" GYD at the scene, courtesy of the Garland LEO's EXCELLENT pistol marksmanship.

The Bottom Line: Do NOT trust the main-slime media to be even minimally truthful.

yours, sw

Last edited by stand watie; 05-04-2015 at 10:17 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 05-05-2015, 07:49 PM   #39
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Since they were wearing body armor, that probably means the cop got head shots to render them DRT.

THAT'S the cop you want on the department shooting team.

"Oh, you silly gun nuts, how can a citizen with a PISTOL hope to stand up to a Jihadi armed with an assault weapon? You don't need to carry a concealed pistol".
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Old 05-06-2015, 08:36 AM   #40
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So very impressive. I read the cop was 60 years old; I'm betting he was no stranger to the range.

The "event" was hosted by what I would consider a hate group. And while I loathe any sort of hate group, I will stand up for their right to free speech and freedom of expression...You have a God given right to be an a-hole if you want to in America.

Feel very bad for the two who were injured, but I don't feel bad at all for the two psychopath's who had their birth certificates revoked. Big kudo's for that cop, and I hope all see how that is the ONLY way to address an active shooter.

So much for the theory that a handgun against a rifle will never prevail. Just one more example of how it's the "Indian, not the arrow".
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