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DavidE 03-24-2012 10:23 AM

Elephant in the room: The Martin case in Florida
I'm no fan of cameras everywhere but I wish there was a video here, just for the legal process.

I wonder if voice stress or recognition gear could be used on the recorded phone calls to determine who was talking at certain points.

It isn't good, lots of conflicting stories and other actors getting involved in the situation.

phantom4570 03-24-2012 04:13 PM

There's enough media spin on this story to make anyone dizzy. The media spun this as white on black violence but the shooter is obviously mixed race Hispanic with a European surname. Anyone notice the photo of Zimmerman in the orange shirt makes it look like a booking photo of someone in an orange jumpsuit? Anyone else notice how that same photo is getting whiter each day? I doubt that Martin was the innocent scrawny little angel that the MSM is leading us to believe. That "undated" picture of the scrawny kid was taken years ago when he was a scrawny kid. I've read elsewhere that he was six feet tall and weighed over one sixty. I've seen what is claimed to be a recent picture of him from his facebook page where he looked more like a gangsta than anything else. (I am seeking to validate the photos, they could be shops so I won't post links until I know more)

Zimmerman had grass stains on his back and a cut on the back of this head. The police obviously believed there had been a violent struggle and that Zimmerman's self defense claim had merit. We need to see past the spin and the cloud of hot air that is fogging the truth of what happened that night.

dfariswheel 03-24-2012 06:12 PM

To make things even more inconvenient for the "official" story of a white, redneck, racist killer, the shooter is Hispanic, with close family who are black.

Also, not overly reported.... there's an eye witness to what happened.

Apparent, the "victim" also has some sort of criminal paperwork in his background, but that's being closely held.

TommyGunn 03-24-2012 06:51 PM


Originally Posted by dfariswheel (Post 526046)
To make things even more inconvenient for the "official" story of a white, redneck, racist killer, the shooter is Hispanic, with close family who are black.

Also, not overly reported.... there's an eye witness to what happened.
Apparent, the "victim" also has some sort of criminal paperwork in his background, but that's being closely held.

From what I've heard, there appears to be two witnesses; one saw an early part of the incident and another who saw the later portion.

Skeptic49 03-25-2012 02:28 AM

The "Noose" media seems to be conducting a lynching. What has been ignored after the initial rush of data, this occurred in a Gated Community. Which in FL means it occurred on private property.

Whole different set of laws applies on private property.

Who wants to know what the original police report said and why the police have not made formal statements, or if they have, why have they been ignored?

WaltGraham 03-25-2012 06:04 AM

Secret eyewitness...

bearcat6 03-25-2012 07:10 AM

They are going to nail Zimmerman no matter what. It's way out of control.

Tim Burke 03-25-2012 07:13 AM

What happened at the end of the incident is not clear.
What is pretty clear is that Zimmerman used poor judgment at the beginning of the incident.

I note the article claims that the "secret" witness saw it "all" but the article only documents his observations starting when Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating him, was interrupted as the witness moved upstairs, and resumed when he reached an upstairs window, after Martin had been shot. The headline, that Martin attacked Zimmerman, is not supported by the text of the article.

If Zimmerman started the conflict, he will likely have a hard time with a self defense plea. If the only testimony about the start of the fight is his, his poor judgment may affect the believability of his testimony.

DavidE 03-25-2012 09:44 AM

It is also dependent on subjective judgements:

If he approached the young man to ask what he was doing there, was he acting with kindness as a member of a gated community on watch duty or out to start a fight? Juries and media organizations will have different opinions on that aspect.

Provided that such a thing would be true and I cannot know if it is.

shep854 03-25-2012 09:45 AM

Even if he's cleared on self-defense grounds, Zimmerman will likely spend the rest of his life in civil court with serial cases.:(

Solomon Kane 03-26-2012 09:54 AM

So now the New Black Panther Party has put a $10,000 bounty on Zimmerman. I wonder if the NFL will suspend them.

phantom4570 03-26-2012 02:49 PM

Drudge is carrying one of the photos of Martin I mentioned above. The original size clearly shows Martin looking very gangsta with his lower teeth all done up with gold onlays.

DavidE 03-27-2012 09:22 AM

The Brits are putting out a bit more than our domestic media is:

Trayvon Martin case: He was suspended three times and caught with 'burglary tool' | Mail Online

Also online stuff, as opposed to TV:

Trayvon Martin shooting: New details emerge from Twitter account, witness testimony | The Cutline - Yahoo! News

The two things I note are that pieces of information that could legitimately allow for changes in policy or advice to prevent future tragedies like this have been lost in the stirring up of hot button issues that has taken place, and that much of the stuff coming out in other sources like online or foreign media were surely known by the US media first but ignored in favor of getting one action line out and established before anything else could come out.

As the saying goes, they can always print a correction two months from now on page 12B, if they feel like it.

I am sad the kid is dead. I would like the shooting investigated as all shootings should be. I would like to have people learn from it to the full depth of the facts. Unfortunately the people driving the story seem to share none of those interests, at least in a fact based way. Then again that might not sell as many newspapers or make for as much hay to be made for some of the people involved now.

IrishCop 03-27-2012 11:58 AM

This is the reason I HATE talking to the media about any incident/offense. I've given clear, concise press releases that contain all pertinent facts, and they still get it wrong!

Although I have many questions about this case, one thing really stands out for me.

Maybe there is a significant difference between Alabama law and Florida law, but here ANY shooting (or act of violence), fatal or not, is investigated. If the investigating officers feel that the action does not warrant arrest, it is almost always presented to the Grand Jury. THEY decide if the actor should be indicted or not.

And I freely admit that covering our political asses figures into this. Having a panel of 18 civilians back your play sure helps.

Skeptic49 03-27-2012 12:23 PM

Early moral of the story. If you take a position in the "Block Watch" make sure you have GOOD LEGALLY REVIEWED liability umbrella insurance. 3 million is the usual base. If you have a CCW ditto. Watch for sneaky insurance companies that won't do a thing for you until YOU have proven yourself innocent in a court of law.

Who better follow his own advice. Sigh.

Skeptic49 03-27-2012 12:26 PM

According to the afternoon noose, the family is suing the Home Owners Association, on the grounds that the event happened on private property, even though the HOA has nothing to do the Block Watch, which is a city government thing.

Who notes when a neighborhood starts to go down hill, RUN EARLY before the property values drop.

jhooley 06-25-2012 02:08 PM

Nobody in the media is talking about this case because they really believe in finding justice. The entire altercation has been hijacked into a political agenda with no real care for the truth.

stand watie 06-25-2012 09:29 PM

to ALL,

according to a "source" inside the FSP, there is a mountain of forensic evidence that is being evalated by the FSP "lab rats" & TWO actual eyewitnesses.

btw, the paramedics gave Zimmermann a "orange scrub top" to wear, as the Sanford city detectives took his shirt for gunshot/hair & fiber & other trace evidence.

i suspect that there will be plenty of evidence to conduct a fair trial.

NOW, if we could just get the "main-SLIME press" to close their BIG mouths. ====>the "working press" makes me GAG!

yours, sw

Kevin Gibson 08-03-2012 04:04 AM

I know I'm very late weighing in on this, but it's very hard to see where Martin actually did anything offending until the altercation. The way someone "looks" just doesn't cut it; I hope to God that's not what passes for a defence in a lethal force case in ANY state. Yeah if I see someone who looks "to me" like a dirtbag casing my house, I'm going to take notice, but that's a big difference from taking aggressive action.

On the other hand, it's very difficult to see Zimmerman as anything but the aggressor. He chose to pursue Martin, which really paints a picture of an aggressor.

I think Mr. Burke nailed it on the lack of judgement comment. Zimmerman is likely (perhaps rightfully so) to pay a very steep price for his actions for decades to come. Classic example of why lethal force ought to truely be your last resort.

Tim Burke 08-03-2012 05:54 AM


Originally Posted by Kevin Gibson (Post 527339)
it's very difficult to see Zimmerman as anything but the aggressor. He chose to pursue Martin, which really paints a picture of an aggressor.

Much more information has surfaced since the early reports. Early reports clearly suggested that Zimmerman pursued and provoked the confrontation. Later information suggests that is not the case after all.

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