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Old 07-11-2013, 08:23 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Javlin View Post
Well the DA pulled a rabbit out of there hat and it looks like child abuse/death 3rd degree M/S.The defense and the judge seem abit preplexed with the defense contention that this was planned from the begininng.Zimmerman hangs!!!it's what the masses wanted but not the rule of law.

So the truth rears its ugly head.

It is a showtrial.
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Old 07-11-2013, 09:22 AM   #62
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Yep TG looks that way but we all knew deep inside this never was going to be played by the rules.Just like a Lib who signs on to a certain sets of rules and paramaters at the beginning looks to change those very rules(cheat anyone) once defeat looks imminent.So it appears I better be close to death before a fellow conservative shoots the Black perp?But hell knowing this system and it's players it would be I who has to pull the trigger...........
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Old 07-11-2013, 12:33 PM   #63
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Zimmy shoulda had a drop gun.... always have a drop gun......
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Old 07-11-2013, 04:42 PM   #64
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And with all the recent press about data mining, you still saw fit to post that?

Last edited by William R. Moore; 07-11-2013 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 07-12-2013, 01:57 AM   #65
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Unfortunately legal precedent is being set. The Judge is obviously trying to get the jury to convict on the lesser charge, manslaughter, the prosecution suddenly threw in at the last moment.
If Zimmerman is convicted on ANY charge it becomes de facto ILLEGAL to CARRY A SEMI-AUTOMATIC with a round in the chamber in Florida. It also establishes in law the fact that "Profiling" is no longer restricted to LEOs and that VIGILANTE no longer requires a conspiracy to exist. I am looking at a CCW revolver again, despite the encounter with 6 to 10 disadvantaged youths, in their Welfare Queen Model Caddy Escalade at a Shell station at 0400, when I go to work.
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Who wonders if the lawyers are behind the persecution of Zimmerman who short circuited the legal process, years of lawyer fees and taxpayer money. While the young terrorist thug ran his life of crime and eventually would spend 30 - 40 years waiting execution and making lawyers billionaires on the taxpayer in the process?
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Old 07-12-2013, 06:14 AM   #66
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While I share everyone's concern about the outcome of this case, I am slightly more optimistic. I have been a jury foreman in criminal cases three times, and I can assure you that unanimity is difficult to achieve, even in slam-dunk cases where the perp really deserves some honeymoon time with the boys in orange. The all-female jury bodes well also; in all three of the trials I experienced, the holdouts were bleeding-heart females who didn't want to "ruin" the perp's life.

Even if the state manages to eke out a manslaughter conviction, it will only mark the beginning of the appeals, one of which is likely to be fruitful given the number of questionable rulings by this judge. Following an overturned conviction, I doubt that the state would have the appetite for a retrial.
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Old 07-12-2013, 06:55 AM   #67
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CaptainGyro,

While I believe that Zimmermann will be found NOT GUILTY of any crime by the jury, I expect that ZERO's coven of crooks, creeps, wierdos and leftist radicals will try him for civil rights violations. = I trust NOTHING that ZERO & his crowd say/do.

yours, sw

Last edited by stand watie; 07-12-2013 at 06:56 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 07-12-2013, 07:52 AM   #68
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With apologies... but not to O.J.

iOwnTheWorld.com Blog Archive If the Head is Split… You Must Acquit
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Old 07-12-2013, 10:06 AM   #69
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And with all the recent press about data mining, you still saw fit to post that?
Really?

Last edited by SpecialEd; 07-12-2013 at 08:56 PM.
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Old 07-12-2013, 11:36 AM   #70
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I think it will either be a hung jury, or a conviction on a lesser charge. I just don't see a conviction on the murder charge.

But the issue isn't really the shooting as far as I can see it. You can pretty easily spin that one to a defensive shooting. You're on the ground getting your head bashed into the pavement. The issue is the circumstances that lead up to the shooting. If you press an issue that turns into someone getting killed, then it can be manslaughter. I think there's quite sufficient evidence that he pressed the issue. The phone conversation is the "best" evidence of that becuase eye witnesses are much less reliable. So I think you'll end up with most if not all of the jury saying the shooting was in self defense, but he pressed an issue that lead to the death of Martin, and that could end up getting Zimmerman a manslaughter charge.

So it's lesser charge conviction, or the jury doesn't come to a consensus on the whole ball of wax, and it's a mistrial.
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Old 07-12-2013, 01:15 PM   #71
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I don't know Kevin I am thinking what if GZ story is correct and he was heading back and got cold cock the tables then turn from aggressor to prey.One would at that point have all the right to defense.The only things we really know is that 1)TM knees wet grass stain2) GM back wet 3) disfigured nose and contusions on GM 4) shirt was away from TM's body at time of gunshot,leaning 5) eyewitness sees red shirt bottom.
Now do you as a jury throw a man in jail for a maybe?That's assuming an awful lot and that maybe neighborhood watches should be a thing of the past?
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Old 07-12-2013, 04:20 PM   #72
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I don't know Kevin I am thinking what if GZ story is correct and he was heading back and got cold cock the tables then turn from aggressor to prey.One would at that point have all the right to defense.The only things we really know is that 1)TM knees wet grass stain2) GM back wet 3) disfigured nose and contusions on GM 4) shirt was away from TM's body at time of gunshot,leaning 5) eyewitness sees red shirt bottom.
Now do you as a jury throw a man in jail for a maybe?That's assuming an awful lot and that maybe neighborhood watches should be a thing of the past?
If it is on the evidence, there is reasonable doubt out the wazoo. The problem is this trial almost seems to be a "UK Law" deal where the defense must prove innocence and the accusation is taken as "until proven false" instead of innocence until proof of absolute guilt.

I think you are right, the message if he gets convicted, especially for Murder, will be "Let that Genovese woman die, don't get involved, you'll be the one to get in trouble." Though I am sure a few types in the USA would like this country to have a population that believed that.

Was it a chain of screw-ups? Yes. Murder? No.
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Old 07-12-2013, 06:06 PM   #73
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Was it a chain of screw-ups? Yes. Murder? No.
That it was but stuff happens and the good Lord takes us without notice.The other thing one needs to notice when was the last time you got into a fist fight with a guy with a gun?Never right!TM got the first blow for if he knew or thought GZ was armed he would of left like any sane man would have done.All of us have thought about or have had to kill somebody in the line of duty(LEO/Armed Forces) myself not but never want to be put in that spot.I do not think that GZ went out that night who do I get to shoot tonight?Shit happens but if you want answers ask the ole man when your time is up.

Last edited by Javlin; 07-13-2013 at 03:42 PM.
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Old 07-12-2013, 10:37 PM   #74
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I think something that needs to be taken into account in all the verdict predictions is that the jury is all female. I predict Zimmerman gets convicted of a lesser charge at least.
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Old 07-13-2013, 12:25 AM   #75
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The jury retired for the night.
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Who figures that means a conviction on the lesser charge.
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Old 07-13-2013, 05:46 AM   #76
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But the issue isn't really the shooting as far as I can see it. You can pretty easily spin that one to a defensive shooting. You're on the ground getting your head bashed into the pavement. The issue is the circumstances that lead up to the shooting. If you press an issue that turns into someone getting killed, then it can be manslaughter. I think there's quite sufficient evidence that he pressed the issue.
Quite sufficient for what? Has that been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, because THAT is the standard. The jury instructions include this:
If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary
Even if he pressed the issue, he still has the full right of self defense as long as he "was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be". For all the complaining about "profiling" & "following" (neither of which has been proven), both of those activities are legal.

Quote:
The phone conversation is the "best" evidence of that becuase eye witnesses are much less reliable.
Which phone conversation?
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Old 07-13-2013, 03:40 PM   #77
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Well the jury ask for clarafication on the manslaughter charge I am beginning to think that emotions not facts are at play now,GZ is screwed.They might as well take that Stand Your Ground Law and throw it out also?It does befuddle me though that in the Casey Anthony case the mother walks because the DA screwed the pooch and I think the same happened here but an innocent man is about to go to jail.
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Old 07-13-2013, 05:04 PM   #78
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Well the jury ask for clarafication on the manslaughter charge I am beginning to think that emotions not facts are at play now,GZ is screwed.They might as well take that Stand Your Ground Law and throw it out also?It does befuddle me though that in the Casey Anthony case the mother walks because the DA screwed the pooch and I think the same happened here but an innocent man is about to go to jail.
The reports I read said they asked if they could get a clarification on the manslaughter charge,. The judge responded (correctly) that she couldn't answer a general question like that. If they were to submit a specific question, that would then be addressed. No specific question was submitted. So yes, they may have moved on from the Murder 2 charge; doesn't mean anything else yet.

I thought the defense wasn't going to use the "Stand Your Ground" defense at all...though I could be wrong. I for one haven't stayed glued to this, only following the recap stories in the press.

I know how you feel about this case versus the Anthony case. Personally, I think it is perfectly clear that this was a politically motivated prosecution from the very start. Hell, Alan Dershowitz is calling for the Prosecutors to be criminally charged. And the State is really worried. That fact that they were trying to get a child abuse charge (for which he was never indicted) added at the last minute, AFTER all the testimony was over, screams desperation.

For those of us who carry a gun, this case should be a real big eye opener. Bro Mas has written about citizens facing unfair criminal action after a shooting for years. This case has made very real a component for such action that has always been there, but rarely talked about.
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Old 07-13-2013, 06:32 PM   #79
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I want to thank the ladies of the jury for reading & understanding the jury instruction on self defense, because if it wasn't self defense than it was manslaughter.
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Old 07-13-2013, 06:40 PM   #80
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The two happiest people in America tonight, in no particular order:

1. George Zimmerman

2. Al Sharpton

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