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Old 06-08-2013, 04:14 PM   #1
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Ode to the Pig: M60 Training Film

Despite all the cussing, it gave yeoman service over decades. Given that use and all the variants, it couldn't have been all bad.
M60 Machine Gun, 7.62MM - Operation and Cycle Of Functioning - YouTube
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Old 06-08-2013, 05:27 PM   #2
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shep854,

Presuming that you have a GRAM of weapon knowledge, I've never understood why all "the cussing". = We MPs depended on the M60 MG for 2 generations & personally I never had a single problem with it over 2 decades.
(Otoh, I'd trade 3 M60 for ONE "Ma Deuce", provided that I had PLENTY of ammo. - I used to wear a timing & headspace guage , on a chain around my neck "in the field". - One competent gunner can CONTROL 1-5 grid-squares, depending on terrain!)

yours, sw
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Old 06-08-2013, 06:57 PM   #3
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imo, the m-60 was a giant step BACKWARDS compared to m1919a4- which was thoroughly reliable, had no feed problems, and there were better guns like the m3 ( the 308 version of the mg 42- not the grease gun) available at the time- but thanks to the"made in America " policy we were deprived of the best weapons at the time- all I can say THANK GOD the navy( my branch) modified the 1919a4/a6 to fire the 7.62 nato round and I always carried 15c - dime and nickel- to set timing and headspace- we were eventually forced to the m60 same as the m16
for example, there was no viable reason for a non-removable bipod on the barrel assembly for a vehicle/aircraft borne weapon- and that feeding problem is well documented

the ONLY viable m-60 was the e3, which was an effort to update an antiquated design to compete with guns like the mag 58
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:48 AM   #4
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I was a 45B Small Arms Repair(person) back in the day '72 to '82 to save two lbs they turned down the FN? Which the Army in it's infinite wisdom bought later M240...

Steps in M60 service:

1. Gauge receiver and check rivets.
2. Replace rivets, gauge receiver
3. Send to welding shop at post maintenance for upgrade.
4. Gauge receiver, replace all parts.
5. Send to Depot for destruction of receiver and recycling of the parts you just put on..

Ah full employment of assets...fun.

BUT, the M-60 was vastly superior to the ground mount version of the M-73, M-73A1, M-219 the Army wanted to replace the M-60 the first few times around. It was designed to fit in a space left over by the designers of the M-60 tank who didn't consider including weapons a reason to change their beautiful designs. Then there were the bolts to hold accessories, like lights, to the inside of the turret, identical except for six different lengths...but they looked so neat!

M73 machine gun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
M85 machine gun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
FN MAG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Geoff
Who notes modern weapons are designed by committees for committees, not for the poor schmuck who gets dead when they don't work...."But the design looked so neat!
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Old 06-09-2013, 04:24 AM   #5
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That seemed to be the consensus: new, tight guns ran like a house afire, but tired ones gave trouble. On one website where the M60 was discussed, a couple of combat vets nearly came to (virtual) blows, their experience was do different.
----
Ref the M240, it was the Marines who introduced them to US ground use when they bought a bunch of Army M240 coax guns as surplus then fitted them with ground kits!

Last edited by shep854; 06-09-2013 at 04:26 AM.
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Old 06-09-2013, 04:46 AM   #6
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The weapon's shortcomings notwithstanding, the video is excellent.

Although I was in the Air Force, we worked closely with the Army, and I was always impressed with Army training. They had the ability to distill the important parts of complex subjects and convey them to young draftees, many of whom had struggled in high school. The methods were sometimes crude, and relied on rote, but they worked.

After my first jump at Benning as an Air Force cadet, I was packing up my chutes (yep, needed the reserve), when the eighteen year-old draftee who had been behind me in the stick came running up to help, grinning from ear to ear.

"My first time in an airplane!" he gushed.
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Old 06-09-2013, 04:42 PM   #7
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at which point you promptly rolled over- the whole point of the exercise was to make the prospect so sick he never wanted to fly again-
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Old 06-21-2013, 12:12 AM   #8
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The Airpersons spend a great deal of time frightening innocent young Soldier, so they are willing to jump out of a perfectly good airplane and trust their lives to a canopy of cheap synthetic supplied by the lowest bidder.

Geoff
Who was NEVER airborne, I was assigned to armor and support units..anybody out there with the exploding ***hole patch, 13th COSCOM in their resume'? I saw one on a modern Class A uniform and was shocked, I thought all my old units were gone.
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Old 03-16-2014, 07:12 PM   #9
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Well, as an ex-Small-Arms Spec, I had quite a different view of the Pig. First, and most rediculous, was mounting the elevation adjustable sight on the Barrel instead of the receiver. Every time you had to change the barrel out(Every 1200 rounds or so), the weapon had to be resighted. Then there's the receiver. I believe it was a MAG58 receiver they used and turned it upside-down, can't remember but, they didn't even have the common-sense to turn the sear rightside up! They left it upside down, just dangling there. This contributed mightily to a lot of runaways. Then there's the gas system. If you didn't have safety-wire to tie it together, the gun didn't run very long before you had to put it back together. I don't even want to get started on that miserable excuse for a feed tray. You couldn't run a full belt through without a jam unless you had a guy carefully feeding. Thank God for C-Rat cans. One of them on the side and it fed.

You guys really think this was a good weapon? The M60GPMG and the M16 were the first entrants into the new 'We refuse to admit a mistake' system of Military Ordnance. Then they carry the same attitude onward with the SAW. Thank god they saw the light with the M240B.
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Old 03-16-2014, 09:43 PM   #10
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Retmsgt,

Pardon me for pointing out again that the only problem that I ever had with the M-60 was MAINTENANCE related. - Give me a well-maintained gun, plenty of ammo & I'll keep things "quite calm" in my AO, after a couple of belts.
(And YEP I really do shoot the M-60, Left-handed too.)

just my opinion, sw
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Old 03-17-2014, 04:04 AM   #11
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The M14, wonderful rifle that it became, also fit into the 'We refuse to admit a mistake' system. Considering it was at heart an M1 mod, Ordnance did a remarkable job of screwing around with it.
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:01 AM   #12
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In my USAF SP days, we all had to qualify with the M-16, M-203 and the M-60. I liked the ol' Pig...except for humping it during Air Base Defense exercises. I was a 147 lb Airman who learned that when low crawling with the M-60, all I could do was throw it it front of me and crawl to catch up to it. My sergeants said they always gave to 60 to a smaller guy, because he was a harder target to hit.

Never was in a combat situation, so my opinion as to it's functionality and reliability doesn't carry much weight, but during training and qualification, I never had an issue with it.

I know our first qual with it at Ft Benning when I was stationed at Robins AFB Ga, I had zero problems engaging multiple targets at various ranges (they had old vehicles set up for us to shoot at) by just eyeballing the tracers and walking the fire in, even out to 400 yards.
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Old 03-17-2014, 07:17 AM   #13
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if you were wise, you gave the 60 to the man with Swedish ancestry , or possibly if it was a mixed unit, well, u know where-
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Old 03-17-2014, 02:05 PM   #14
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retmsgt. View Post
The M60GPMG and the M16 were the first entrants into the new 'We refuse to admit a mistake' system of Military Ordnance.
My late father did ancillary design work on some weapons systems: bolt buffers and gun mounts (the airframe gun mount for the Vulcan for instance) and such. He would modify your statement to the "most recent entrants into.....". Possibly "This generations entrants........". I don't believe it's possible for firearms designers to admit mistakes, it's a genetic predisposition. [An example: the prototype revolver 20mm cannon (attempt to work around the GE patent on the Gatling system): one barrel served by a cylinder of firing chambers. This atrocity actually made it to testing at Dhalgren where the overheated barrel separated from the gun and was later recovered downrange and embedded in the ground. Epic Fail leading to rejection of concept.]

In Re: the M-60 GPMG. I'm surprised no one has mentioned the peened assembly of the recoil spring guide. If you've never seen the result of having the shaft turned into a knitting needle through the coils of the recoil spring, you've missed a truly educational experience. Lord knows how many people died before that became a welded assembly.

I had a buddy who collected MGs. He showed me his brand new M60 (yes, it was new, not used) when he got it and was a bit disappointed when my reaction was a suggestion that he should have bought a MAG58. Didn't take long before he'd made up the price difference in repairs. I forget how many rounds he had through his before he sheared the sideplate rivets. That was after the failure of the recoil spring guide.

And, no one has mentioned the results of closing the feed cover at the wrong time while inserting a belt.

Last edited by William R. Moore; 03-17-2014 at 02:22 PM.
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Old 10-02-2014, 06:40 PM   #15
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I came across this M60E3 video on the 'Forgotten Weapons' YouTube channel. It seems to be a good overview, featuring the newer version of the Pig.
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Old 10-03-2014, 11:29 AM   #16
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The M60's as made by US Ordnance of today is everything the M60 was supposed to be. They are probably better than the M240's which is saying something.
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Old 10-03-2014, 11:48 AM   #17
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Now if only they made a Non-NFA version too... LOL
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