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Old 04-26-2006, 05:20 AM   #1
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 421
Piston-driven ARs from Patriot Ordnance Factory

http://www.pof-usa.com

I'm taking a serious look at their 16" .308 model. They've been getting decent reviews from print mags, but that doesn't count for too much. I'm waiting for some guinea pigs from AR15.com to try it out. (There are user reviews on those forums for the .223 model that say good things about it.)
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Old 04-26-2006, 05:41 AM   #2
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
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THey make them in .308? Which brand of AR 10 do the .308 uppers fit? I didnt see anything about a .308 upper on their website (although I could have missed it...). I put a magazine through an M-16 with a POF upper. Seemed to work fine. I asked the owner about the POF upper, and he said he had only recently bought/installed it, so I cant say anything about longterm use.
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Old 04-26-2006, 06:24 AM   #3
 
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They announced it at the SHOT Show this year.

http://www.pof-usa.com/POF-USA%20NEWS.htm

They've recently solved some teething problems with their .223 uppers, so they're probably applying the fix to the .308s as well.
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Old 04-26-2006, 06:32 AM   #4
JR
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And it only took forty years to repair the reliability problem caused by dumping gas and residue in the receiver!

Most of the follow-on systems designed for the latest round of military rifles use some sort of piston-rod. Accuracy may not be quite as easily obtained for Match use, but for battle-field conditions, the accuracy is excellent, and reliability has proven remarkable.



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Old 04-26-2006, 06:41 AM   #5
 
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One of the articles linked from POF's website showed MOA accuracy for some of their .223 uppers. I hope this is achievable with their .308s. You won't be joining the 1/4 MOA club from Oly Arms, but what more do you need from a battlerifle than reliability and MOA accuracy?

It's kind of funny that the lead designer from POF is an aerospace engineer who branched into firearms design, like Eugene Stoner.
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Old 04-27-2006, 10:35 AM   #6
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Have a POF 223 upper I carry on duty. Have right at about 3000 rounds thru it with zero malfuntions. Thats with good, bad and crappy ammo and mags of all types. It will hold MOA with TAP @ 100 from a supported prone and my 1-4 luppy. Less heat, LESS CLEANING. Very reliable, I bet my life on it, literally. Been trying to get them to make a sniper/varmint version in 223, 6.8 and 308. The less cleaning alone has paid for it in my opinion.
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Old 05-01-2006, 06:07 AM   #7
 
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That's good info. Thanks, Remington.

Do you lube the rifle at all? I must admit that's the part that really gets my hopes up. If it doesn't require lube and doesn't have appreciably incrased wear and tear, then that would make things so much more convenient...
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Old 05-01-2006, 06:27 AM   #8
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 133
Just a drop of lube over the entire bolt. Don't lube the piston or houseing @ all. The CROSS system is included and better than sliced bread. Takes about 10-15 min to completely clean rifle (no bs). No more black fingers when your done cleaning too!
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Old 05-01-2006, 01:03 PM   #9
 
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All right... I'm gonna have to get one in .308!
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Old 05-01-2006, 10:04 PM   #10
 
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while the 7.62 version sounds tempting, I will have to see how much they cost, what type of lower/magazines they use, and hope for the availibility of some reasonable barrel lengths (18in and 21-22in would be nice).
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Old 05-02-2006, 04:27 AM   #11
 
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Posts: 421
Some answers, my friend!

The lowers are DPMS lowers. Which means that you can use the Knights Armament Co. magazines. ($$$$$!) DPMS will be offering complete rifles, later this year.

So far the only confirmed prototypes have barrel lengths of 16 and 10.5 inches. However, other barrel lengths should be available. (18 inches is almost a no-brainer, but...not sure if they'll hit 22 inches.)

I can't remember the last time that I didn't spend nearly as long cleaning an AR as I did firing it... As much as I like my Troy Industries SOPMOD M-14, easy-field-stripping isn't one of its vaunted features. Just the work savings alone would justify a purchase.
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Old 05-02-2006, 08:51 PM   #12
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Do you know of anyone who actually sells KAC mags? My buddy has a DPMS AR10, and has bee looking for one, to see if it will work better than the DPMS mags that came with his rifle. He has been having some feeding issues from a full mag... this last weekend he tried modifying one of his mags, and it seemed to work more reliably. But I believe he is still interested in buying at least one KAC mag. A 10.5" bbl on a 7.62mm rifle is plain ridiculous. I think a 16" bbl is still too short. I prefer an 18" bbl on a 7.62 carbine, and 20+ inches for a rifle. One thing that bothers me about the current crop of AR10s is that they use the popular AR15/M16 barrel lengths - I dont mind a shorter barrel on a 5.56, but I believe a 7.62 should get a slightly longer bbl.
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Old 05-03-2006, 04:19 AM   #13
 
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i second that.
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Old 05-03-2006, 04:28 AM   #14
 
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I've never had a failure to feed with the KAC magazines. It's disappointing that DPMS mags seem to have that problem. This place seems to have 'em in stock at $110 a pop.

http://www.ar15-rifles.com/shop/index.p ... =1&cat=116

John Carney of Excalibur Arms may have a few as well. His website address is http://www.sr25.com. He and Knights had a falling out when they decided to concentrate on their military contracts, though.

(My advice is that if you have a friend (preferably an officer) in the military, they tend to get much better service from KAC than civilians or LEOs. Oh...and why can't they design these damned things take G3 mags?)

I think my optimum barrel length would be 18.5" for .308. With 22 or 24 inches, the suppressor would make the setup just too unwieldy, even for the suppressor-friendly indoor ranges I frequent. (Nothing says, "inconsiderate" like a short-barrled, unsuppressed .308 in an indoor range!)
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Old 05-03-2006, 06:10 AM   #15
 
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Thanks for the info - I emailed my buddy in case he wants to get one. I personally dont care for outfits that sell products to the goobermint but make them unavailible to the hoi polloi. An 18" barrel and a supressor is a great combo for 7.62! Perhaps one day I will get a supressor...
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