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Old 04-25-2009, 11:39 AM   #1
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berdan boxer

is there a way to safely (and efficiently) convert berdan primed cases to boxer? Seems like it should be easy enough to get a small pilot hole drilled, but I'm thinkin the trickiest part may be the primer pocket. Can it be done? Anyone do it?
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Old 04-25-2009, 11:52 AM   #2
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Re: berdan boxer

I personally don't think so. The anvil is actually part of the case. It has 2 tiny flash holes on the outside of its base. I think that a standard size flash hole would still leave the 2 from the Berdan setup. Why one would go through all the trouble even if it is possible is beyond me.
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Old 04-25-2009, 02:05 PM   #3
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Re: berdan boxer

Quote:
Why one would go through all the trouble even if it is possible is beyond me.
what Joe said
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Old 04-25-2009, 02:33 PM   #4
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Re: berdan boxer

What if brass was hard to come by?

The whole use once and destroy premise disturbs me, especially now given the shortages of ammo, and such. If you could modify a disposable article, and use it till it can't be used any more, why not do it? Especially if its not costing you anything. I'm wondering because if you can get more than one shot out of a berdan cartridge before turning it in for scrap, then you've done something.
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Old 04-25-2009, 03:40 PM   #5
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Re: berdan boxer

Converting Berdan-primed cases to Boxer-primed cases should be very easy for someone who was able to remove a stuck sub-caliber chamber. All it involves is some careful, accurate machining on each and every case.

You really could do it, but what's the point?
Here's my thoughts on the how of it:
1) Using an end mill that just fits into the Berdan primer pocket, carefully remove the built-in anvil. Do not dig the pocket any deeper.
2) Using a flat-bottom reamer of the correct size, enlarge the ex-Berdan primer pocket to accept one or another size of Boxer primers. (If the Berdan pocket is larger than any Boxer primer, and some were, carefully machine a teeny-tiny bushing to fit a Boxer primer to the Berdan pocket. Solder one of these into each Berdan case's primer pocket.)
3) Make sure that when you seat the Boxer primer into the modified Berdan pocket, the Boxer primer's anvil doesn't close up either of the Berdan pocket's flash holes. (Maybe use a fiber-optic set up, to look from the empty case through the flash holes, toward the Boxer primer?)

See. Easy!

(It was really, really hard to write that, with my tongue stuck so deeply into my cheek.)
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Old 04-26-2009, 03:04 AM   #6
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Re: berdan boxer

Maybe they shoulda called em BURDEN primers? Hmmm... hahaha. So now I see why in theory it can be done, but its probably not worth it. I apologize to those board members I doubted. Thanks Steve.
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Old 04-26-2009, 05:23 AM   #7
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Re: berdan boxer

You think this is a problem, read on.................

Georgia Arms is the 5th largest retailer of .223 Ammo in America. (they
sell 9 mm, .45, etc ammo)

They normally buy spent brass from the US Dept of Defense - 'one time
used' shell casings by our Military - from training on Military bases,
etc. They buy the brass and then re-load for resale to Law Enforcement,
Gun Shops, Gun Clubs, Wal-Mart, and etc.

They normally buy 30,000 lbs of spent brass at a time.

This week the DoD wrote a letter to the owner of Georgia Arms and said
that from now on the DoD will be destroying the brass - shredding it.
It is no longer available to the Ammo makers - unless they just buy it
in a scrap shredded condition (which they have No use for). The
shredded brass is NOW going to be sold by the DoD to China as scrap
metal....after the DoD pays for it to be shredded. The DoD is selling
the brass to China for less money than Ammo manufacturers have been
paying...plus the DoD has to pay to have the brass shredded and do all
the accounting paperwork. That sure helps the US economy now, doesn't
it? Sell cheaper to China - and do not sell shells at all to a proven
US business. Any agenda working here???? Obama going after our
ammunition!!!!!

The Georgia Arms owner even related a story that one of his competitors
had already purchased a load of brass last week - and the DoD contacted
him this week and said they were sending someone over to make sure it
was destroyed. Shell Casings he had already bought! THE BRASS HAS NO
VALUE TO THE AMMO MAKER IF IT IS DESTROYED/SHREDDED/MELTED. THE AMMO
MANUFACTURER ONLY USES THE EMPTY BRASS SHELLS TO RELOAD DIFFERENT
CALIBERS - MAINLY .223 BULLETS.

Georgia Arms owner says that he will have to lay off at least Half of
his 60 workers, within 2 - 3 months if the DoD no longer sells their
spent brass to him. He has 2 - 3 months inventory of shells to use. By
summer - he's out. If he has to buy new manufactured brass shells, then
the cost of ammunitioin to the buyer will double and triple...plus Obama
wants to add a 500% tax on each shell.



You can read the info and see the DoD letter to Georgia Arms here:

The Shootist Site

http://www.theshootist.net/



Georgia Arms Site:

http://georgia-arms.com/

Loss of US jobs, control of ammunition by the new Obama
administration....liberalism at its best and on the way to socialism.
When times get bad...and they will very soon...only the bad will have
guns and ammo. */This new "Obomanation" is going to make good citizens
into crinimals by trying to take our guns and ammo. /*
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Old 04-26-2009, 06:32 AM   #8
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Re: berdan boxer

I was under the impression that the DOD order to mutilate brass had been rescinded. Have I missed something?
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Old 04-26-2009, 08:11 AM   #9
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Re: berdan boxer

Dex,

reloaders are probably the best examples in the world of practicing fasle economy and some are perfectly happy to spend an hour on a 0.25 piece of brass.

In the worst case scenario you project would it not have been better to invest your time and money in acquiring the skills needed to quickly and quietly dispatch an enemy and take HIS gun and ammo?
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Old 04-26-2009, 08:13 AM   #10
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Re: berdan boxer

Quote:
I was under the impression that the DOD order to mutilate brass had been rescinded. Have I missed something?
It may have been. I'm usually a day late and a hundred or so foolish. I'll have to take a look.
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Old 04-26-2009, 08:25 AM   #11
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Re: berdan boxer

TooTall, You were apparently correct. My bad. Here is a link that explains it. Thank you!

Source
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Old 04-26-2009, 11:11 AM   #12
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Re: berdan boxer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Petty
Dex,

reloaders are probably the best examples in the world of practicing fasle economy and some are perfectly happy to spend an hour on a 0.25 piece of brass.

In the worst case scenario you project would it not have been better to invest your time and money in acquiring the skills needed to quickly and quietly dispatch an enemy and take HIS gun and ammo?
Yes.
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Old 05-16-2009, 08:54 PM   #13
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Re: berdan boxer

"...The whole use once and destroy premise disturbs me..." Armies have never cared about that. Even peace time Armies that require the brass to be turned in after a range day.
Converting berdan to boxer doesn't work well. You end up with too large of a flash hole. There are very few cartridges you can't get with boxer primers these days.
"...best examples in the world of practicing false economy..." Like keeping berdan primed brass and hoping to be able to reload it. More trouble than it's worth, if you can find berdan primers of the right size.
Most of us are guilty of it too. Have a box of improperly BP loaded(70 grains of BP loaded for a Trapdoor carbine and no lube on the cast bullets. FNG at the time. Stupid trade off as well.) .45-70's around here. Don't have a .45-70 of any kind. snicker.
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Old 05-19-2009, 08:01 PM   #14
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Re: berdan boxer

This topic has cropped-up , for obvious reasons over the last couple years,,,looks like alot of work to me. It would be much simpler if someone would simply import berdans'.
You can try this:

http://parallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsfo ... ethod.html
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