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.45 super ?

8K views 43 replies 11 participants last post by  Fortyfied 
#1 ·
I've got a 6in 1911 that I've been shooting texas ammo co. 230 gr out of and I'm getting close to the published 1200fps out of it my question is does anyone have a handload that duplicates this? I just ordered 500 rds of new starline brass and some xtp to play with i just need to decide on powder and primers.
Thanks for the help.
Eric
Also is this a load I should only use in new brass or is it safe to reload a case once or twice?
 
#29 ·
Okay, I feel like Sensop.
When I first heard of the .357Sig, I thought "Why dont the do the same in 45acp and .40. Now, you mean to tell me they had this all along?
I can do this with my 1911's?
How do I get started?
Any more news on the ammo?
.40 super, that is.
thanx,

CZ Gunner
 
#30 ·
CZgunner said:
Okay, I feel like Sensop.
When I first heard of the .357Sig, I thought "Why dont the do the same in 45acp and .40. Now, you mean to tell me they had this all along?
Don't forget J.D. Jones' .41 Avenger. It was available in the early '80s.

As for the .357 SIG, the 9mm Action Express (based on the .41 AE) predated by a few years. However, Action Arms and IMI never released it. Firing the 9mm AE from an Uzi resulted in the bottleneck case almost reverting back into a straight walled case.

(Oddly enough, there is a company advertising a Uzi .357 SIG conversion in recent issues of Small Arms Review.)
 
G
#32 ·
The things gun companies let slip through their fingers.
Or just won't come out with....

What about a .22 Glock (not a conversion). Single stack grip frame (of the different sizes), aluminium slide, blow back action in the "Glock Block" style. Manufacturing costs would most certainly be less then a normal Steel Glock. Gun could probably compete with the Ruger MKII price wise. Glock fanatics would buy these up by the boatload.

My hope is tha Kimber will increase their line of dedicated 1911 22s. While their .22LR is a great gun, capable of Match accuracy, it's price is somewhat hard to swallow for a .22 Plinker.

Or how about a Full Sized Slide on an Officer frame 1911 a la Kimber CDP?

Or a Micro-Compact H&K USP??

Why or Why don't they make these things?!?

But NOOOOO but NOOOOOO they have to compete against each other for the Best and the Biggest by...

Reinventing the .45 Short...

Inventing a half-inch crew served handgun...

Bringing out Paperweigh Big Bore Revolvers.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
 
#33 ·
Geez, Schmit, you sound upset. You mean to tell me an ultra-lightweight .44 Magnum that pounds your hand, elbow and shoulder when you shoot it with wimp loads is not a sound concept? :lol:

I bet if dear 'ol Gaston liked .22s he would have made a gun chambered for it. Then again, if he did he probably would have made the chamber walls on his barrels too thin and you'd see .22 Glocks blowing up all over the place. :wink:
 
G
#37 ·
460 Rowland is better by far, and the

cost of having to buy so much of the .40 Super, etc brass, get new dies, molds, mags, slide, etc, starts to look really silly. The .460 brass can be had in 100 rd lots, from Graf and Sons, in Mexico, MO, and of course the round uses the .45 slide, mags, components, dies, molds. All you have to do is have a fully supported barrel's chamber deepened by .060", and if your frame doesn't take a fully supported barrel, firing .45 Super loads or .40 Super loads thru the gun is a bad idea, also. The Rowland gets a 100 gr swc to 2200 fps in a 6" barrel. That's 1070 ft lbs. Yet the recoil is that of a Plus P 230 gr, 950 fps .45 ACP load. Penetration with the solid tin swc is pretty extreme, also, and man,does that bullet shoot "flat" to 100m.
 
#38 ·
With regards to the .40 Super, yes, you need brass (as you would with the .460 Rowland). Yes, you need dies. The slide is a .45 ACP slide. The magazines are .45 ACP magazines. Bullets are .40 caliber and readily available. Powder and primers? Also a non-issue. Barrels that are chambered for the .40 Super can handle the pressures the cartridge generates, which are equal to the .40 S&W.

.45 Super can be fired from a 1911 without a fully supported chamber. That was the reason behind the stouter brass. Dean Grennell came up with the cartridge based on that concept. Triton brought the brass to production and made sure the brass was strong enough.

The .460 Rowland is too much for the 1911 platform. I worked on load development on that cartridge when Triton was going to release factory loadings. Whether it was our 165 grain or 230 grain, the guns were getting beat to hell from recoil. Even with the ridiculous recoil springs and comp that made up the drop-in kit. That round is not pleasant to shoot. The cartridge case was also not well thought out. The case is too long for .45 ACP magazines. Yes, you can seat the bullet deep enough to get the cartridge to feed, but you have to seat the bullets right to their shoulder. The case should have been shorter and more time should have gone into its development. There is also that little problem with bullet setback. The heavy recoil spring system almost guarantees bullet setback. I can tell you first hand what the pressures are like on those rounds. Can you say thermonuclear device?

Now about your 100 gr. SWC .460 Rowland load. I’m sorry but I’m not impressed. Without trying very hard we had the .40 Super 135 grain at 2,000 fps, which generated 1,199 ft/lbs. It would shoot just as flat to 100m. Oh, and that is from a S&W 4506 with a five inch barrel. In the end, who really cares? I’m sure you can load the Rowland to some crazy velocity but what does it mean? That you like to put yourself at risk of a kB? That you like to push the envelope? Isn’t that what this is really about? That you don’t know what the limits are?

Please, if you want to continue to post, do so about the people you know, the legendary people you met, and things in your life. Leave the ballistics to those that know what they are talking about.
 
#40 ·
I spoke at length to the guy at Lone Wolf and he told me that the ammo that he was getting was supposedly NEWLY MANUFACTURED by Precision Ammo. I discussed with him what I knew of the situation and that he had better check to make sure that it was not just the loaded ammo that was onhand at Triton that had not been through QC and pressure tested. He said that they had assured him that it was not the case, and that he had send Precision a couple of barrels to do pressure testing with.

Mike
 
#41 ·
Schmit said:
The things gun companies let slip through their fingers.
Or just won't come out with....

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Here is my wish list:

How about Winchester making a 25WSM & 35WSM, not that piddly Super Short stuff.

How about Ruger actually getting the Gold Label into dealers hands before designing a new round (204 Ruger) that is a solution to a non-existant problem.

How about Marlin bringing back the Camp Carbine.

Or from way out in left field, Taurus or Ruger making double action revolver in 22/22mag conversion. maybe even sell it with interchangeable barrels like Dan Wesson. Switch barrels from 22 to 17. I would buy that.

How about Savage making their 22 heavy barrel bolt gun with a good set of target sights instead of just drilled & tapped.

Remington Classic in 30.40 Krag

And please, somebody, ANYBODY chamber a bolt gun in 300 Whisper & 7-30 Waters


Now we will see if anybody listens
 
#42 ·
harley45 said:
any new news on the availability of .40 super brass?
I was chatting at Mike McNett of DoubleTap Ammo the other day about his soon to be released .45Colt offerings and while getting an earfull asked him how he was coming on his plans for 40Super and 450SMC. He paused just briefly to say he'd placed an order for .40 Super brass and then dove back into the .45Colt subject. He says he'll have the .45Colt listed on his website, http://doubletapammo.com , by early August if not sooner.

http://www.starlinebrass.com/newproduct.html
 
#43 ·
Well, this .40 super sounds neat. What kind of velocities have yall got with the .40 super and the heavier bullets, like the 180 or 200 gr loads? What is .450 SMC? Also, which parts have to be changed on a 1911 to shoot .45 super? Thanks for the info.
 
#44 ·
I don't shoot the 180's or 200's but as I recall they both are supersonic out of the 40Super.

Nowlin Guns will modify your 1911 .45 to handle 40Super: http://www.nowlinguns.com/merchant2/merchant.mv

LoneWolf Distributing sells 40Super supplies. The website has a search function which will produce a list of all their 40Super goodies if you type 40 Super into the blank: http://www.lonewolfdist.com

Here's a couple items Lonewolf sells:
http://www.lonewolfdist.com/stockdetail ... =SPR-16674
http://www.lonewolfdist.com/stockdetail ... -40SP155HP

Starline sells brass: http://www.starlinebrass.com/pricelist.html

The SMC in 450SMC means Small Magnum Cartridge. The brass is similar in design to 40Super except it uses bullets made for 45ACP and will chamber in a standard .45 Pistols. Rumor has it DoubleTapAmmo may be adding both 40Super and 450SMC to its product line-up. http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/index.php

If you buy into 40Super and want to handload, use 400Corbon as a starting point. I found that load data in the Accurate Arms guide: http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerC ... 40Cal(10mm)/400%20Corbon%20pages%20119%20and%20120%20Handgun.pdf
 
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