I am considering investing in a case neck turning outfit to raise my handloads for a model 700 PSS bolt gun in 308 to the next level. Any information on this neck turning procedure is appreciated... like will it really make a difference in group size.
How much time do you like to spend reloading? I turn necks so I know there is one less thing that could be wrong. If you have an accurate pss, neck turning most brass could offer limited improvements in accuracy.
If you don't want to spend the time turning, buy Lapua brass and shoot it as is.
My current handloads for the standard PSS using Fed match brass, match primers, Sierra 168 match bullets seem to average 1/2" to just under 3/4" at 100yds. This is using average over the counter reloading components. Time spent reloading 50 cases of the same lot has not been bad.
The theory is to spend a little more time and ream the primer pockets, debur the flash hole, try neck turning, and neck size only to see if the groups would be consistently 1/2" or less.
One issue I have noticed is the Fed match brass does not seem to be straight, as it swings an ellipse when the shell holder is chucked in a drill. This would seem to affect accuracy.
I saw Lapua brass in the MIdway flyer last night - this good stuff - whats the story on it?
Lapua brass is very good but there are a couple of things to wonder about first...
Your results are already good and neck turning will almost surely better those but have you exhausted overall length as a variable yet? My PSS shoots best with the bullet just barely off the rifling- no more than 0.005"- but that alone can make quite a bit of difference.
Neck sizing helps too- flash hole stuff doesn't- but if you are seeing significant runout when spinning cases you shouldn't be getting the accuracy you already are... the only real good way to check that is with something like the RCBS Case Master where you can put a dial indicator on the bullet, neck and case body to see how true they really are.
I use the Redding bushing neck sizing die and only reduce the diameter by 0.001-0.002". Generally I only size about half the neck too. But before you invest in expensive stuff like that try varying the oal (if you haven't already) and then the least expensive next step would probably be the Lapua brass.
Neck turning is a real pain and I can generally get the 1/2" without having to do that.
I have seen flash hole uniforming make a big differance in group size while neck turning had no effect. I would start with flash hole uniforming and then try different OAL. You can get a tool for flash hole unifroming for around $10 from Lyman. Remember, only make one change at a time. Fed. match brass may not be the best. I have even questioned the ammo at times, shot to two different POI from the same box.
Gunseller
Thanks,
I figured I would ream & debur the holes and pockets as the benchrest types do this and the tools are cheap. I may not be able to adjust the bullet seating out more as I recall I looked at this and the length that fit the detachable magazine was the factor. I also will neck size the brass vs full lenght nextime as I read this makes a difference. If this still doesn't shrink group size, I will try neck turning and or Lapua brass.
The Forester hand held neck turning outfits any good?
Some people get good results from neck turning others don't. I was once of the opinion that it didn't make much difference in chamber with .014" of neck clearance where it would make a difference if there were only .004" of neck clearance. I have heard reports that it can make a difference. With a standard chamber you only need to remove enough material to clean up the neck. It's like uniforming the primer pockets.
Invest in a Redding bushing neck sizing die and a precision seating die. I like the Forster Ultra Benchrest seating die but the Redding is good as well.
Using the bushing die on the neck size between .075 to .100" of the neck. Experiment with different bushings until you find a combination of bullet tension, seating depth and load that your rifle shoots well.
The K&N tool is good and I have one but over the years I've ended up with a couple of Sinclair tools and since I only have a couple of cartridges that I neck turn I just have a tool set for each. I use the Sinclair shell holder in a cordless screwdriver.
The neck turning accessory for the RCBS case trimmer works well too... especially if you're doing a lot of cases..
I've been using the Forester hand-held turner for about a year now. Seems to work fine for me. I think an even more important tool that is needed if you're gonna turn the necks is a mic to measure your necks and help set up the turner.
I have a RCBS mic designed for that purpose and it does a good job.
The benchrest guys swear by and at neck turning. Their rifles are usually set up with tight chambers known as TNT (tight neck turkeys). Many, in effect, don't even need to size their brass- they just prime and charge and seat the bullet by hand. And you should see the charges they use! Many reloaders would fear them as they shoot very, very warm loads.
The neck dimension in most bench rest rifles is so tight that neck turning is required. A standard size neck won't fit in the chamber. When they turn down the neck they're looking for .002 to .004" of case neck expansion. The ones who don't need to size the neck are probably working with less than .002" of case neck expansion and extremely light bullet grip.
The original post mentioned a factory Remington 700 so extreme amounts of case neck turning are not required. Just enough to make the case necks uniform. Something I am going to try one of these days myself.
I chucked my expander ball in a drill and polished is down 2 thousandths with 400 grit sandpaper and the need for neck turning went away. Another thing that may help with the Federal brass being lopsided is to wait about a minute after firing to extract the case from the chamber...don't even lift the bolt handle just let the rifle sit there off safe with the fired case in the chamber until it cools for the true chamber dimension. HTH
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