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Old 02-01-2009, 06:38 PM   #21
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Re: Your Thoughts Please on SHTF Weapon

...Yeah, buy your .30-'06 in sealed cans, in bandoleers, in Garand clips.
That way you get reloadable cartridges, reusable clips, and a (somewhat inferior) way of carrying them around, all in a weatherproof and almost age-proof container (until it's opened, of course).

Don't think of doing any reloading, when the SHTF. It takes up less space (and it's safer) to store loaded cartridges than it does to keep components and tools.
It is worth your time to take up reloading right now, though. At the expense of your spare time, you better-than-halve the cost of ammunition. Don't experiment too much: work up an accurate, military-equivalent load, and then stop.
(I use 165-grain, soft-point bullets over IMR 4895.)
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Old 02-02-2009, 11:10 AM   #22
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Re: Your Thoughts Please on SHTF Weapon

If I get a Garand and it turns out to have a bad barrel what do I do then? How much do they cost? Who makes them?

Terry
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Old 02-02-2009, 11:44 AM   #23
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Re: Your Thoughts Please on SHTF Weapon

If you get a CMP Garand, which is the very best way to go about it, it will have a good barrel.
New (that is, unused) Garand barrels are available. See Shotgun News, for one source. Try Google, too.
Any really good gunsmith can do the changeout, but don't expect instant service. Really good gunsmiths have lots of work to do ahead of yours. Changing a Garand's barrel is not too big a deal. It just has to be done carefully.
There's a commercial outfit that refurbishes military rifles to original specifications. They do Garands. Their guns go for premium prices, of course. They advertise in the NRA's Rifleman, among other places.
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Old 02-02-2009, 11:51 AM   #24
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Re: Your Thoughts Please on SHTF Weapon

Quote:
Originally Posted by suasponte
If I get a Garand and it turns out to have a bad barrel what do I do then? How much do they cost? Who makes them?

Terry
The CMP sells replacement barrels (short chambered); iirc, they were forecasting raising the price to $200/bbl for 2009; last November I think they were still $180 or $190.

Remember, the CMP uses any profits they generate to support markmanship competition (juniors; our sport/way of life is graying people! Take more kids to the range!), so I'd rather buy a barrel from the CMP than the same one for $5 less from Midway.

Considering the amount of extra work that goes into a Garand barrel vs. a simple threaded tube for a bolt action, I'm not surprised that the M1 barrel is 2x the sale price for an Adams&Bennet Mauser barrel from Midway... but at the volume of shooting I do, I'm not going to have to worry about replacing the barrel, so I'm not that worried about it.

If you can get to one of the CMP/Creedmore Cup events (East or West) or one of the CMP Stores (North or South), you can look for an M1 with minimal wear on the barrel: I found a Field grade with execrable wood [the stock was literally firewood: warped, improperly inlet, and the buttplate was mashed up from use as an entrenching tool?...] - but it had a MW of <3 and a TE of <5 (numbers that would have qualified it as Service Grade if the wood had been better.)

The CMP is always generous in their grading, so if you just want to mail in an order, put a note on it stating you want a good shooter for use in matches, and if they're not totally swamped with orders [as they are now, and have been since last November, starting about 2 days after the election], they'll likely send you a rifle in whatever grade you request with excellent numbers but poorer finish [vs. some of the parade rifles w/ great looks but sad barrels/sights...]
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Old 02-02-2009, 12:18 PM   #25
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Re: Your Thoughts Please on SHTF Weapon

I just read another thread and it says the CMP is totally swamped under with ammo orders and they are working over time just to ship them. If they get shut down with an executive order where do I find the barrel or clips then other than at gun shows or online assuming you can find it. I like to touch, feel and inspect what I am paying for. I have heard of too many guys buying crap and being stuck with crap.


Terry
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Old 02-02-2009, 01:44 PM   #26
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Re: Your Thoughts Please on SHTF Weapon

Clips are hard to ruin.
Mail-order is OK, if the source is reputable. Make sure the clips are returnable, if you're dissatisfied.
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Old 02-02-2009, 03:38 PM   #27
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Re: Your Thoughts Please on SHTF Weapon

I don't know if modern bolt action rifles are better than say a 1903 or 1917. What I do know is the Garand, M1A. FAL et al are much more complex than any bolt gun. If you truly are preparing for SHTF than why not go with something that has fewer parts to break? If you need to get warm and fuzzy about CRF (controlled round feeding) get yourself a Mauser patterned rifle. If push feed is good enough than go with just about any brand named bolt. As to sights- you're not going to be shooting at 1000 yards. The Williams type sight is fine for several hundred yards on man-sized targets. If you are in the mood to do something now, 30-06 surplus is cheaper than just about any caliber, at least for now. If you are falling for the bugout scenario, you would only be able to carry a small quantity of ammunition anyway, so don't fret about caliber choice. If your retreat is your home, by all means reload for now and the future as well as acquiring a good .22, bolt preferable of course. The idea of hunting to feed yourself is not valid in most parts of the country but you certainly could augment your larder with game of opportunity.
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Old 02-02-2009, 03:49 PM   #28
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Re: Your Thoughts Please on SHTF Weapon

I suggest that the farther off you can "reach out and touch someone," the less likely you are to be "touched" yourself.
I further suggest that anyone who thinks of himself as a rifle shooter should be capable of hitting a stationary, man-size target at at least 500 yards. And 1,000 yards is better.
If you are under attack by doofuses armed with AK-47s, you should be able to stop them long before they come into a range at which they can hit you. One or two good hits will stop them in confusion, while you "exit, stage left" and break off the engagement.
The reason for a rifle (as opposed to a carbine) is its ability to do effective, long-range work.
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Old 02-02-2009, 04:13 PM   #29
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Re: Your Thoughts Please on SHTF Weapon

You'll run out of ammunition pretty quickly as you're only carrying 100 rounds, no? A far better course of action is when you see the enemy carrying AK's at 1000 yards is to run like the wind. The best sniper in the world with the best equipment can't hit a mover at 1000. When discussions turn to survivalism, most turn/deteriorate quickly into macho bull leavings. If you are truly interested in SHTF scenarios think how often you are likely to get in firefights. If you envision this and train/act accordingly, you will not survive.
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Old 02-02-2009, 06:17 PM   #30
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Re: Your Thoughts Please on SHTF Weapon

Steve, you're awfully argumentative. Been having a bad day?

I didn't advocate banging off rounds at people 1,000 yards away. I advocated being able to hit people at 1,000 yards. There is a difference.
The difference-makers in any situation are skill and practice. If you wish to survive, you need to have the skill and you need to have practiced it.
Further, if you will do me the courtesy of going back and reading my post about 100 rounds being enough to last a year, you will see that my primary recommendation was to practice avoidance and evasion, rather than engagement.
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Old 02-03-2009, 03:07 AM   #31
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Re: Your Thoughts Please on SHTF Weapon

Thanks to all who have posted and shared information with me so far. I appreciate all the information. I can envision both scenarios neither pleasant-and I think run n gun or hunker down it all comes down to how good a marksman you are and how much range practice time you have put in.

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Old 02-03-2009, 04:23 AM   #32
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Re: Your Thoughts Please on SHTF Weapon

Modern QC on retail ammo is far better than the govt.'s requirement for war use [ie: it must go "bang" and not screw up the rifle!],

This is a very interestng statement and I am assuming the term "govt.'s requirement" refers to the United States Government? If so would it be possible for you to expand on the above statement a bit and clarify where your data is from and how it was arrived at and compare the US Gov't requirements to the industry requirements to include NATO STANAG?

"The actual requirement was for 5moa using issue ammo, not controlled lot. In other words, using random crap leftover from WWI,...."

1. I am not aware that FA did not produce 30.06 ammo between WW1 and 1936?
2. Please explain the difference between "controlled lot" and "issue" and what factors determine the difference?
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Old 03-13-2009, 04:41 PM   #33
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Re: Your Thoughts Please on SHTF Weapon

M-14 for me, have the ammo, have the mags. Steve, I agree, I wanna be far away from any threat, iron sights, and practice are a must. I have a head spaced spare bolt, and small bolt parts, and op-rod spring. The rifle is all TRW new parts, and an LRB receiver, mags,all old school USGI. This rifle has been flawless in action, it's only used in "action" matches, multiple targets.

The Wife is humping the AR, the Ciener .22lr kit works well for small game, switch it out for a problem.
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Old 03-13-2009, 09:07 PM   #34
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Re: Your Thoughts Please on SHTF Weapon

Hope you have plenty of ammo since the gov't just declared that all brass must be demilled for selling in the future so there will be no more reloadable brass from SAM. I too have a old school M1A that shoots under MOA and plenty of mags.
For long case life from now on it will depend on how tight your chamber is and how hot you load them and how much you size them.
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Old 03-26-2009, 03:25 PM   #35
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Re: Your Thoughts Please on SHTF Weapon

Why would anyone pay $1000 for a SHTF bolt action? Far better to get a used Savage bolt for $250-300 and spend the remainder of the grand on ammo, IMO.
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Old 07-13-2009, 04:45 PM   #36
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Re: Your Thoughts Please on SHTF Weapon

Nobody said Enfield. Nobody even said SKS. Put it this way... I have 3 03 type rifles (1 1903, 2 1903a3's) and one enfield .303. I like the Enfield better. Springfield looks better, but if I'm getting shot at, the farthest thought from my mind is "I hope they aren't using an ugly rifle!" Enfield's cool because its robust, inexpensive, and you can even get em in .308 if you really want to. The only bad thing I can really think of would be running out of .303brit ammo. That can be rectified by buying, or loading a big pile before you need it. Or getting one in .308...

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm staying put, and I'm not looking for a fight. If trouble comes calling, I'm gonna do my best to drive it back, but my goal is to piss away as little ammo as possible.

Thing is, if someone came up to me, and told me the S was about to HTF, and I could have but 1 rifle, and it'd have to last for years, what I'd choose is an SKS. I'd want a sporter type (non folding, non-m4 wanna-be) stock, though. You can do alot with an SKS. And despite what people say, they are accurate. Plus, they're stone reliable, and very robust. Something to consider.
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Old 07-15-2009, 10:31 PM   #37
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Re: Your Thoughts Please on SHTF Weapon

Well, for me it's first, whats on hand.

I have a First Gen AR-180, and a Win Model 12 riot shotgun. The AR can fold and fit in a large hiking backpack. The Mod. 12 breaks in half, and can be stowed in frigging Jansport bag like a kid would use for school! So that takes care of discretion. Plus, those are two common calibers.

I have a LOT of other stuff, but if it's time to hit the bricks, I'm not going to advertise I'm loaded for bear. Plus, the 180 is LIGHT, the ammo is LIGHT (and effective despite what people say) the shotty might get cached if it becomes a burden though.

If I need something better than that, I have a funny feeling it won't be hard to get after the mythical SHTF scenario kicks off.
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Old 07-16-2009, 02:23 AM   #38
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Re: Your Thoughts Please on SHTF Weapon

One thing seems to be overlooked is maintenance material. Semi autos are like women. They don't like to be dirty and they don't like to be mistreated or they will eventually shut down. The carbon generated on firing will harden up and then you have big problems.
If you are going to rely on a semi auto better plan on patches, (lots of them) cleaning rod, brushes and bore cleaner and weapon lube. There are two things that can double for both cleaner/lube and that is Ed's Red you make yourself and Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil.
Yes I am familiar with CLP and would not use it on anything.
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Old 07-16-2009, 05:15 AM   #39
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Re: Your Thoughts Please on SHTF Weapon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hummer
One thing seems to be overlooked is maintenance material. Semi autos are like women. They don't like to be dirty and they don't like to be mistreated or they will eventually shut down. The carbon generated on firing will harden up and then you have big problems.
If you are going to rely on a semi auto better plan on patches, (lots of them) cleaning rod, brushes and bore cleaner and weapon lube. There are two things that can double for both cleaner/lube and that is Ed's Red you make yourself and Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil.
Yes I am familiar with CLP and would not use it on anything.

And revolvers can get a flake of unburned powder under the ejector star and jam up - I've had it happen twice. Sure screws up a quick reload. As far as cleaning a semiauto, ever seen a battlefield pickup AK or SKS?
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Old 07-16-2009, 06:20 AM   #40
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Re: Your Thoughts Please on SHTF Weapon

You gotta carry a toothbrush if you carry a revolver to get under the extractor star. They don't like sand either. If that is all you got, that is the game and you gotta make do. I would tie a piece of mason's twine in a loop and carry the toothbrush around my neck. The easiest revolver to take down to clean the "innards" is a Ruger Security/Speed/GP series.
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