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Old 01-22-2007, 10:45 AM   #1
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Road Closed, what now?

If you were traveling between Sacramento and the Bay Area last saterday. you would have noticed that from about 11am to 5pm I-80 was a parking lot. There was a six car pile up, involving three fatalities. It got me thinking as I live less than three miles from the site of the accident.

What would you do if the main artery is taken out and the "back roads" go with it?

I'm wondering as I have had a GF who due to medical reasons could not walk two miles in a day.
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Old 01-22-2007, 11:57 AM   #2
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buy a 4x4 and use any route you can find...utiltiy ATVs work nice too and are about as wide as your standard side walk....
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Old 01-22-2007, 11:59 AM   #3
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I recommend................

Keep water, non-perishable food, first aid supplies and blankets in your car.

I also keep a few tools, hand-axe and fire starter, as well as a small shovel (for sand in Florida, for snow up north) available.

If in my 4X4, I also have rope, tow straps and sometimes a comealong device. I don't usually have these in my luxury sedan because I don't think they would help me extract it from a ditch, etc.

In addressing your scenario, the point is to be able to have water, food and supplies for comfort necessary for remaining in one spot for a long delay.

Speaking of comfort, keep a roll of toilet paper in your trunk.

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Old 01-22-2007, 12:20 PM   #4
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It is slowly dawning on me that "bugging out" is just not going to be a useful activity. I do think Old Star is right--like him, I carry all that stuff all the time even in the sedan (don't have a 4x4). But notice that the cluster on I-80 was not during an emergency. Yet, if it had been an emergency--say if the population of Sacramento was scrambling westward to get out of the city and ran headlong into a panicked horde of eastbound SanFranciscans--you know the drug addicts and drunks are going to crash their 1972 Ford Econoline vans right up front at the head of the line, and voila! Instant parking lot. With entertainment, as people try to problem solve in a sea of adrenaline.

Katrina showed us an orderly evacuation, and I must say I was impressed. Slow as that long line of traffic was, trying to get out of N.O. before the storm hit, I think people did really well. The ones who did best had the Old Star's list of stuff on board. Others were caught short and suffered a bit.

But in a sudden, unexpected disaster, I don't know...

Blah blah blah, I'm just thinking out loud here.

One last thing: you gotta respect Travis's one-word solution. Can't argue with that.
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Old 01-24-2007, 08:52 PM   #5
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I use to live in Dixon and had similar thoughts of how to best to get home after I-80 was a parking lot. Not the best location being so close to the Causeway either. It is easy to get stuck on one side of the river or the other.

I have since left the Republic of Kalifornia and work within a heathly walking distance of home, but I drive the diesel Duramax instead.

Living Tactically .... the new yuppie buzz word.
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Old 01-24-2007, 09:30 PM   #6
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Quote:
I use to live in Dixon and had similar thoughts of how to best to get home after I-80 was a parking lot.
So you know what a five car pile up at pena Adobe will do. In my plans to get home, you will find a BOB and a pair of Boots.
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Old 01-25-2007, 07:28 AM   #7
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That's it exactly. In a bad, sudden SHTF, the roads will plug up. Then we're on foot.


By the way, where did TravisMaine's one-word post disappear to? Just curious.
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Old 05-01-2007, 11:14 AM   #8
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Unless we have some sort of 20 min warning then city dwellers are screwed bigtime.
I cannot imagine someplace like LA,NYC,San Franfreako,etc.

If you cannot walk when rds clog up then may be tough it out at a house some where.
Maybe fort up with friends,parents etc.

Remember those po souls in the NOLA nursing homes .
Dayum.
If your healthy and can afford it you may try a short escape with an ultra lite rigged for 2.
Git 2 your prepositioned stash..
How far out to go is another whole question.
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Old 05-01-2007, 12:03 PM   #9
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My best friend lives in NYC .... but is far from being one of the lib-tards that inhabit the place. We have been discussing purchasing some land in the mountains of Eastern WV as a sort of "safe house" meeting area should SHTF happen. I would take us both about 3+ hours of hard driving, but we would be holed up in a secure place with plenty of stash.
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Old 05-01-2007, 12:44 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikegunner
My best friend lives in NYC .... but is far from being one of the lib-tards that inhabit the place. We have been discussing purchasing some land in the mountains of Eastern WV as a sort of "safe house" meeting area should SHTF happen. I would take us both about 3+ hours of hard driving, but we would be holed up in a secure place with plenty of stash.
Mike, make it East Texas and you have yourself a deal.
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Old 05-01-2007, 12:51 PM   #11
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I live in North Central WV --- an hour south of Pittsburgh --- I can be in Times Square in as little as 6 hours (have done it before!).

That is why we are going to buy in Eastern WV!
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Old 05-01-2007, 06:15 PM   #12
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Congratulations for figuring out that buging out is not it

1. Keep your car loaded with survival gear.
2. Keep a commercial storage spot between home and work or between home and bug out location (rendevous point) stocked.
3. Keep something at work (I simply labeled a box "Wyandotte Litigation" and knew that the janitor and the secretarial thief in the office would never look in the box.
4. Give up the Rambo/SAS/Walter Mitty/Guns of Navaronne/John Wayne idea that you are going to bug out and live off the land like Grizzly Bear Adams.
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Old 05-01-2007, 07:26 PM   #13
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You need to learn the ways in and the ways out. Right now I work east of Sacramento. I drive up on Sunday evenings and drive home on home to Concord on Friday evening. I know several different ways to get in and out of Concord including some that do not involve a toll bridge.
 
Old 05-03-2007, 10:35 AM   #14
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I do tend toward go-more-places type vehicles, since the wife has and I had jobs that required us to get there no matter what. I favor my 4wd pickup and we bought a Subaru Forester, which looks more like a station wagon (there's an old term) than an SUV. Supplies are the name of the game, rather than backwoodsmanship. Know your geography and keep good maps aboard. A good compass and how to use it. I would also suggest not venturing off-pavement unless you have more than 5 gallons of supplemental fuel on board and a mostly-full main tank (Your only detour could be many miles long, and picking your way over logging roads isn't conducive to best mileage.), and plenty of water. A shovel, chainsaw, and maybe a small oxy-acetylene torch (many areas sport locked steel gates between logging plots- cut your way in, weld it back up behind you. To be really stealthy, repaint it too) and a small winch to clear obstructions. Obviously, weigh vandalism and trespass charges against the circumstances you find yourself in.
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Old 05-03-2007, 02:08 PM   #15
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markw76 said:
Quote:
maybe a small oxy-acetylene torch ... cut your way in, weld it back up behind you.

Brilliant! I'm going down to the supply shop to see how small they make 'em. always wanted an excuse for a welding set-up...
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Old 05-06-2007, 12:17 AM   #16
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I feel the best approach is to be able to survive with a regular shaving kit sized necessary gear bag that can be stored easily in any vehicle. I say first that I don't live in the desert. In the shaving kit I like 3 ways to start fire and a very small 1/2 quart cooking pot. I include a few tylenols and some mole-skin along with some ten pound test line some small jigs and a good fixed blade knife with a small sharpening stone. I admit the bolk of my shaving kit is taken up by the fishing line...I like the economy spool of 600yds because it has soo many uses...I nearly forgot I also pack the kit with various sized ziploc bags and includes 2 bottles of H2O purification tablets
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Old 05-06-2007, 11:01 AM   #17
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Some thoughts based on personal experience:

Before retirement, I worked in the "Greater Los Angeles Basin". I was "there" for the '94 Northridge Earthquake" and several lesser ones. I was also "there" for the '65 Watts Riots (just an observer) and the '93 Rodney King Riots (participant, winning team ). Around '92 I moved out of the L.A. Basin and into the high desert north of L.A.. It was 120 miles between home and work.

A feature of the Los Angeles Basin is that it has very limited access. In military terms, there are logistical 'choke points' serving the millions of residents/workers in the basin. The '94 Quake took out a main one: the I-5/S-14 interchange. The 'day after' when I tried to drive home, it was an adventure in map reading and cheating. By then the 'authorities' had "closed" several roadways I needed to use. When a road is 'closed' and guarded, you aren't getting through no matter what vehicle you drive. I was lucky in that I found a 'closed' but unguarded road and got out. I always carry basic survival gear in a vehicle. When I still worked there, I included hiking boots and extra items for a potential walk home.

When I would drive to work, using up over half a fuel load, I immediately filled up upon entering the basin. I tried to never go below half a tank of fuel (and still don't).

In large urban areas with limited access, it seems best to prepare to survive in place but be prepared to escape if a reasonable opportunity presents itself. Mainly, have enough means at hand to not become "desperate". Desperate people make dumb decisions.

There are two catagories of blockage to your egress from an area:
Physical
Governmental

The physical you can probably overcome with careful planning.
The governmental is insurmountable by reasonable means. You may find, like I did, an unguarded alternate and sneak around the obstacle. It is important to note that you should have some idea of the reason for the blockage so you don't drive off a collapsed overpass!

Survival of the 'unexpected' is probably 90% mental preparation and 10% gear. Survival of 'expected' disasters is probably weighted a little heavier toward gear.
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Old 05-06-2007, 11:40 AM   #18
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DArbeit--
Thank you--your experience provides thoughtful insight. Mental preparedness--to survive in place, to sieze opportunities--truly is key.

I am curious about the "closed" but unguarded road you were able to take. Your account makes me think that the authorities deliberately limited traffic flow for some reason other than road conditions. Can you clarify? Do you know what the reason for that road closure was, or can you relate your general experience on the matter?

Thanks very much.
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Old 05-06-2007, 02:44 PM   #19
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Edge, it wasn't anything so involved. As soon as they could the 'authorities' closed all freeway bridges near the epicenter. I am sure it was more of a liability issue more than anything else. They had not the time for engineers to examine the bridges so all were deemed "unsafe" until they could be checked. They didn't have enough law enforcement personnel to guard all of them though. The PD were sent to guard major street bridges until they could be relieved by the National Guard troops. The result was that all the bridges over the Simi (S-11 Freeway were closed. To get home, I had to cross over the freeway. I knew the area well (I worked the FD Rescue Ambulance for the area) so found a side-street bridge that had the little fold-up street barricade signs 'blocking' the way. It was easy to move one, drive through, move it back and do the same on the other side. It was a "calculated risk" that the bridge wasn't damaged enough that my single minivan would be the 'straw that broke the camel's back' kind of thing. As it turned out, they didn't have to repair that bridge so I "chose well".

When I returned to work about 3 days later, there were National Guard sentrys on ALL the bridges. This illustrates one of my earlier points. Be prepared to seize any opportunity right away as later may be too late. I am reminded of the saying: "An adequate plan executed immediately is better than the perfect plan attempted too late". I may have mixed the wording up some but I think it still makes its point.
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Old 05-06-2007, 03:15 PM   #20
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DArbeit--
Thanks for your reply. I was ready to turn a safety/liability issue into a conspiracy issue without the least shred of evidence, so you helped me stay clear.
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