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Old 02-22-2006, 12:56 PM   #1
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What would you take?

Ive been resteling with the idea, of purchasing some kind of small lightweight, general caliber rifle to throw into my E&E/survival kit. Keep in mind that this rifles purpose is not offens/defence. More along the line of of survival, small game and the like. Id like to know what you guys would take, what caliber and so on.
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Old 02-22-2006, 01:17 PM   #2
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Any compact .22 rifle or even better a compact .22/.410 combo. Either one would be great for most any use other than defence and would do in a pinch for that too.

I prefer a marlin papoose takedown and a rossi .22/.410 combo but any good quality would do me just as well. TJR
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Old 02-22-2006, 07:32 PM   #3
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I'll certainly second the .22 idea. Given what you've stated a .22 is cheap, fast, light, capable, and the platforms are near endless.

the .22/410 combo guns like the Springfield M6 Scout have always been on my "list" but have yet to make it into the aquisition pile

FWIW... I'd get a Ruger 10-22 with a folding stock and call it good. Yea, you can go psycho on these things but the stock barrel is more than up to the tasks you've implied.

Metalhead
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Old 02-22-2006, 07:49 PM   #4
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My number one choice of all that I own would be my 10/22. Include with that would be and ample supply of ammo. Include with that a handgun in .22 - mine is S&W stainless with adjustable sights. Oh, and hope there are no bears to contend with.

Second choice would be Mod 24 .22/410 Marlin. Mine's not stainless though, something I'd consider a high priority in a survival firearm. But it does brake down for packing.
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Old 02-22-2006, 08:05 PM   #5
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But then there's the downside of the 22LR: extremely vulnerable to moisture, oil, etc contamination. Unless you carried your ammo in something completely watertight, after the first river crossing, you'd have a slew of duds.

Anything a 22LR can do, the 223 can do better, and at a weight penalty that doesn't compare to the flexibility you gain. And 223 can be sealed (and commonly is) such that environmental problems don't affect it.

When I did this exercise years ago, I started with an Enfield jungle carbine, and a 22 caliber trainer bolt / barrel insert. This included a replacement stock with a raised cheek, for use with a low-powered optic.
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Old 02-22-2006, 09:18 PM   #6
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I feel a 22 vs 223 20 pager comming on! LOL!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bravo762
But then there's the downside of the 22LR: extremely vulnerable to moisture, oil, etc contamination. Unless you carried your ammo in something completely watertight, after the first river crossing, you'd have a slew of duds.

Anything a 22LR can do, the 223 can do better, and at a weight penalty that doesn't compare to the flexibility you gain. And 223 can be sealed (and commonly is) such that environmental problems don't affect it.
Very good reminders about the contamination, for my survival rounds I use discarded photo canisters, thus far no complaints.

NO argument over .223 doing "stuff" better except in two, maybe three regards. One, the weight, you've already mentioned. But that weight can really matter...500 rounds of .223 vs. 500 in .22? I'd rather pack the latter and that does still translate into space lost for other items, or even more ammo.

The scond is...simply..."overkill". think about the "survival" situation. If food is a priority then a .223 is unarguably wayyyyy to big a round for rodents, squirrels, songbirds and even a tad much for a snake. Still a tad "more" than necessary for a badger or beaver, 'possum, or similar sized game.

The last is certainly debatable....sound. A .22 is a LOT quieter at distance than a 223. Not exactly sure of "which" survival situation you have in mind- like HELP ME and more sound would be a good thing...or the SHTF scenario and trying to keep things very low key.

With the .22 long, shorts, hollow points, subsonics, etc... the arena is wide open. .223 ceratinly would be my choice if truly operating from a base and "only" given the choice between those two rounds. But on my own and "everything" being a factor...I'm still leaning towards the 22 in a very big way
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Old 02-23-2006, 05:13 AM   #7
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I'm beginning to wonder whether anything that goes"bang" (even the relatively quiet .22LR) is a good idea for E&E. If I needed to shoot a rabbit or squirrel for food, something that goes "twang-shuss" (like a bow and arrow or a slingshot) might be a better choice. Yes, the bow is bulky and awkward, and takes a lot of practice (so does a slingshot). If suppressors weren't institutionally regarded as being evil by our masters (they muffle cars, don't they?), a suppressed .22LR would seem to me to be a great set-up (have to admit I've not had the opportunity to shoot one). My crossbow goes "K-thunk", and it seems loud to me, though it's probably less noticeable than a gunshot. But it is pretty awkward to carry compared to a .22LR rifle.

I suppose my thinking is shaped by the fact that my immediate AO is somewhat populated. There are undoubtedly many places where the sound wouldn't be an issue.
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Old 02-23-2006, 07:14 AM   #8
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Shogun 79,

You posted
Quote:
general caliber rifle to throw into my E&E/survival kit
E&E is a whole different animal than what you later said
Quote:
rifles purpose is not offense/defense
With E&E you are possibly talking about defense at least until you are caught or killed. Basic survival is another subject where no E&E is involved.

I stick to my earlier suggestions because I know what can be done with the .22 long rifle round. True you must keep it dry as in a waterproof container or even a zip-lock bag, not just in case of a river crossing, (something you should avoid at all costs in basic survival), but also to protect your ammo from rain and foul weather.

E&E suggests you are in Indian country and can't afford to be seen or heard. Most movement will be in concealment of cover or darkness. Limited or no use of fire.

Survival you will be hunter/gatherer and being seen or heard may not be life threating. Movement will be anytime of day or night you need to find water, hunt/fish/gather, or build shelter. Safe to use a fire to cook and warm yourself.
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Old 02-23-2006, 04:27 PM   #9
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How about the Savage 20 guage/ .22 combination gun ? You have wide range of uses ,22 for squirrel ,20 guage slug for deer or hog and bird shot loads .
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Old 02-23-2006, 04:53 PM   #10
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I carry a 308 SS bolt action carbine with peep sights in the truck and it will handle everything on this continent. I carry 2 cartridge converters for 32acp and 30 carbine for small game. They don't take up much space and neither does a box of 32acp. Sure it's more expensive than 22 lr ,but it's only for short term anyways. 32 acp from a rifle will take most small game if you do your part!
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Old 02-24-2006, 05:15 AM   #11
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Wild Trapper
Boy you hit the nail on the head. Id like to amend my earlier statement and exclude the portion about E&E. E&E and Survival are very different from each other, and considerations are very diferent. I guess I got carried away with my acronyms. Happens in the military.
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Old 02-24-2006, 08:52 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogun 79
Wild Trapper
Boy you hit the nail on the head. Id like to amend my earlier statement and exclude the portion about E&E. E&E and Survival are very different from each other, and considerations are very diferent. I guess I got carried away with my acronyms. Happens in the military.
Indian country does make for an interesting subject in and of itself.
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Old 02-24-2006, 06:05 PM   #13
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Very true, wild trapper maybe a good post for next time.
to get back to the original post I was thinking about something along the lines of a 22 hornet something small yet with punch. And it beats packing 300 rnds of 308 or 800 rnds of 223. Or even a 22 mag. given the oppurtunity and the right shot a 22 hornet or mag could be very useful.
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Old 02-26-2006, 09:05 PM   #14
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It is hard to beat the 10/22, with a folding stock, it should fit into a pack reasonably well.
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Old 02-27-2006, 10:32 AM   #15
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I like my Rugers 10/22 and 22/45. I would take either for a survival jaunt. Ive taken rabbits and I have seen a deer go down from one. The only down side would be a grizzly or mountain lion but thankfully we dont have any around these parts.
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Old 09-01-2011, 05:37 PM   #16
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Just saw a Ruger 10/22 with heavy stainless barrel, laminated wood stock and a very nice trigger. He said it was all standard and even factory bedded.
He says if you can find the right ammo it shoots extremely well.

I thought to myself, all it needs is a Weaver 92A scope base mounted about 10" in front of action and a NC Star 2-7x pistol scope and a set of Uncle Mikes Milspec Sling swivels and one would be good to go.
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Old 09-03-2011, 06:39 AM   #17
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I'm with scramasax. I've got a good Savage .22mag/20ga. Can use .22s as well as the mag and any 20 ga shell out there.
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Old 09-03-2011, 07:44 AM   #18
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Rifle and pistol in .22 - both suppressed; probably a larger caliber pistola without a can too; if I need the stouter stuff, stealth is probably going to be the least of my problems.
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Old 09-03-2011, 04:45 PM   #19
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Mine would be the 30Cal Carbine with para stock for E/E and I think a good Magnum 22Lr would be ok for survival/light hunting?Both exist in the collection.
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Old 09-11-2011, 08:44 PM   #20
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to ALL:

most likely, in CONUS less AK, i would take my scoped .243 Remington 7400, as it's "pretty OK" for defense against 2 & 4 legged predators, WTs, feral hogs & not all that bad for small game, especially with my "small game & gallery loads".
(my brother of the heart, CE Harris, enjoys coming up with "gallery loads" for "big game rifles" that are quiet & waste little edible meat. = his cast loads for my 1917 "American Enfield"/P-17 are GREAT medicine for squirrels/rabbits/etc. & quiet enough not to disturb the neighbors about 100M away from our front door. )

yours, sw

Last edited by stand watie; 09-13-2011 at 10:32 AM.
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