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Old 03-25-2017, 11:21 AM   #1
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Pattering a combat shotgun.

Is there any reason to restrict (choke) a combat shotgun? I understand centering the pattern to match point of aim/ point of impact, but is the standard 40 yard pattern used on field grade/ wing shooting shotguns relevant to the close quarters use of Tactical/Combat shotguns?

borrowing a quick rule of thumb from Mossberg owners.com:
Here is a quick reference chart:

Shotgun Choke..... Yardage...........Shotgun Choke Restriction

Cylinder................... < 20.......................... 0
Skeet...........................22.5.............. ........... .005 (of an inch)
Improved Cylinder....... 25............................... .010
Light Modified...............30......................... .......... .015
Modified....................... 32.5.................................... .020
Improved Modified........ 35.......................................... .025
Light Full....................... 37.5........................................... .030
Full............................... 40+............................................... .. .035
Extra Full...................... 40+............................................... ..... .045
Super Full......................40+..................... ................................... .055

and How to Pattern a Shotgun from Chuck Hawks: How to Pattern a Shotgun

Is 40 yards a realistic distance to pattern a combat/tactical shotgun?
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Old 03-25-2017, 11:55 AM   #2
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Supposedly, an improved cylinder bore gives slightly better accuracy at distance with slugs it kind of helps with buck shot to supposedly. I didn't buy my gun because it had a choke. In fact I didn't notice it had one until someone pointed it out to me.

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Old 03-25-2017, 01:15 PM   #3
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Seems like 40 yards is rifle distance unless you are using slug.
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Old 03-25-2017, 02:11 PM   #4
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During firearms training on the written test the answer for what is the total effective range for a 12 gauge with buckshot is 50 yards. But I doubt it.

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Old 03-25-2017, 03:04 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 590a1 View Post
During firearms training on the written test the answer for what is the total effective range for a 12 gauge with buckshot is 50 yards. But I doubt it.

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Interesting video: How Far is Your 12 Gauge Still Effective? This Video Tests Bird to Buckshot
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Old 03-25-2017, 11:07 PM   #6
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Yeah, I know all about it and I've seen the video. I know realistically 25 yards is pretty well it for buck shot. Slugs I've seen people make hits out to at least 75 yards.

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Old 03-25-2017, 11:09 PM   #7
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I guess that's why they want us to use number 4 buck when possible. I guess they think the more pellets the more hits you'll have on target. Who knows?

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Old 03-26-2017, 06:41 AM   #8
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Based on memory, No. 4 buck is about .22" and somewhere between 27 and 34 balls in a shell. That makes it pretty devastating at most gunfight ranges.
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Old 03-26-2017, 11:12 AM   #9
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Yeah it's 27 pellets

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Old 03-26-2017, 04:12 PM   #10
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Depending upon the age of the constriction chart, it might not be accurate. Many of those were done in the pre-plastic shotcup days.

Cylinder bore frequently had holes in the center of the pattern, skeet #1 or improved cylinder became much more common on short barreled shotguns that weren't done to dead-bottom price lines.

Now then, the range you pattern shotguns should probably be dependent upon your tactical situation. Years back I patterned different loads at 34 yards due to a particular requirement we had. Standard buck produced 1+ hits on vital areas, Federal Tactical Buck averaged 5+ hits in the vital areas.

A couple of years ago I patterned standard #1 buck at 30 yards. Even with improved modified choke, couldn't put more than 50% of the shot on target.
While he was still at the S&W Academy, Tom Aveni did some comparative testing and decided improved modified was the best choice for most users.
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Old 03-26-2017, 11:53 PM   #11
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Here is an 8 part series where 12 and 20 gauge rounds are tested out of various barrel lengths. I don't necessarily like, agree with, or am a fan of James Yaeger but these tests are pretty extensive!

Part 1

https://youtu.be/eTwtAiVV1gk

Part 2

https://youtu.be/Em__httjfXQ

Part 3

https://youtu.be/6geA_R0fNmI

Part 4

https://youtu.be/grl_HBFawxg

Part 5

https://youtu.be/p2ocB0rExhw

Part 6

https://youtu.be/sWBtL8AiwNM

Part 7

https://youtu.be/mbEZRLUBfI0

Part 8 the conclusion

https://youtu.be/hbaYBC8TtWk

You'll need to watch all of them to understand the whole scope of the testing.



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Old 03-27-2017, 06:02 AM   #12
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Standard 2 3/4 9 pellet 00 Buckshot, even with a 28 inch barrel and modified choke won't pattern 10 inches at 25 yards. Some brands won't even hold 18 inches at 25 yards.

(ie)


If your looking to keep all pellets within a 10 inch circle, you need to regulate your shooting to 50 feet. Barrel length and choke (restriction) don't appear to have the same moderating effect for combat/tactical use, as patterning of lighter weight higher count wing/game shooting.
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Old 03-27-2017, 01:43 PM   #13
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our "boys" have long since abandoned the shotgun- much better th hit the guy in the back with the 223- even the kids on the reserve hit the geese with a 22 lr- of course, being kids they get away with it
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Old 03-27-2017, 04:30 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t-star View Post
our "boys" have long since abandoned the shotgun- much better th hit the guy in the back with the 223- even the kids on the reserve hit the geese with a 22 lr- of course, being kids they get away with it
Good to hear from you again t-star. Give me a chance to even up a little, and we can reminisce about the days prior to plastic rifles. But the folks dancing the conga line still tote a blunderbuss as the magic door key. Not to mention we both know that the 9mm Model 39 (Hush Puppy) dropped more geese than any 22LR ever made.
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Old 03-27-2017, 06:27 PM   #15
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"Hush Puppy." It always got me POed that any LEO was trained to kill the dogs first.
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Old 03-27-2017, 06:48 PM   #16
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I only have 3 shotguns- all for play- these "master keys" are very well and good, but when I want to blow a door, I want to "blow" a door- ie a judicious application of c-4- my 3 shotguns- a remmy 1100 in full duck- ie full choke, a beratta 400 lh in all 3 chokes, and a Winchester defender in ic- that was before I got to pick my own battery- I paid 150 for the 1100 and that was before you could get left handed models easily- and the fact that I can't hit worth a chit with a shotgun
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Old 03-27-2017, 06:58 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by csmkersh View Post
"Hush Puppy." It always got me POed that any LEO was trained to kill the dogs first.
well if you're on the opposite side of the page ie the penetrator where you take out the most dangerous asset first, you can appreciate a well trained dog- the shepherds they use today are maybe a little slower and maybe a little more versatile than the Dobermans we used to encounter, ( the shepherd hunts by smell and hearing, the dobie is line of sight
personally, I have a shepard sleeping a the front door

Last edited by t-star; 03-27-2017 at 07:03 PM.
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Old 03-28-2017, 08:25 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t-star View Post
I only have 3 shotguns- all for play- these "master keys" are very well and good, but when I want to blow a door, I want to "blow" a door- ie a judicious application of c-4- my 3 shotguns- a remmy 1100 in full duck- ie full choke, a beratta 400 lh in all 3 chokes, and a Winchester defender in ic- that was before I got to pick my own battery- I paid 150 for the 1100 and that was before you could get left handed models easily- and the fact that I can't hit worth a chit with a shotgun
Well, 2016/2017 has given US allot more Tactical/Combat Shotguns. I'm not a real fan of Tactical Life, but they do have 20 pages related to shotguns.
Shotguns | Shotgun Reviews | Shotgun News

I'm sure you could find a lefty friendly shotgun that would assist in improving your shotgun abilities.
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Old 03-28-2017, 09:11 AM   #19
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I'm also a left handed shooter but have never been bothered by brass or shotgun cases being ejected across my line of sight. I do prefer doubles but do own and shoot right handed pump shotguns.

Here's some shotguns you might consider:


9 Great Left-Handed Shotguns - Gun Dog Magazine

Last edited by csmkersh; 03-29-2017 at 06:41 AM.
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Old 03-28-2017, 10:22 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by M118LR View Post
Well, 2016/2017 has given US allot more Tactical/Combat Shotguns. I'm not a real fan of Tactical Life, but they do have 20 pages related to shotguns.
Shotguns | Shotgun Reviews | Shotgun News

I'm sure you could find a lefty friendly shotgun that would assist in improving your shotgun abilities.
did u miss the beretta a400- lh?
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