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Old 03-28-2017, 11:48 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by t-star View Post
did u miss the beretta a400- lh?
No, but if you can't hit chit with it I figured you might still be in the shotgun market. Normally I just recommend a double barrel with a single selective trigger to Southpaws. The single selective trigger is usually less costly than having double triggers be reversed for a lefty. Now if you wanted a custom, ($$) just keep the cost low enough that it still makes it afield. JMHO.
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Old 03-31-2017, 08:48 AM   #22
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Seems like 40 yards is rifle distance unless you are using slug.
Of patients I have treated that were shot in the center torso with buckshot from a shotgun inside of 25 yards, NOT ONE have I treated; they were all dead at the scene. Beyond 25 yards, I have never once declared a patient dead on scene. Both my personal anecdotal observations, and the ballistics of buckshot show the shotgun to be a close range weapon unless you're using slugs. And if you're going to use slugs, then you have a really given yourself a very poor rifle.

I consider the 20 bore to be a better choice than the 12 if you're limiting things to 25 yards. At that range, the 20 will be just as effective on a human as a 12 bore, and both the gun & ammunition are lighter.
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Old 03-31-2017, 02:57 PM   #23
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I consider the 20 bore to be a better choice than the 12 if you're limiting things to 25 yards. At that range, the 20 will be just as effective on a human as a 12 bore, and both the gun & ammunition are lighter.
My sentiments, exactly.
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Old 03-31-2017, 04:39 PM   #24
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My sentiments, exactly.
I have a memory problem, what exactly was the Military Nomenclature for the 20 gauge round or firearm?

Doubting Uncle Sam are We?

Sounds allot like fielding a .223 Rodent cartridge instead of Battle proven .30 Caliber cartridge to me?

But the 9 mm has proven itself to far superior to the .45 ACP.

How about a little consistency?
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Old 03-31-2017, 06:08 PM   #25
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You want to pack a 12 when a 20 will do the job more than adequately at REAL shotgun ranges, have at it.

The 9mm has proven itself far superior to the .45ACP. Get serious. Both 9 and the 5.56 are about Snuffy packing more rounds for today's spray-n-pray training.
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Old 04-03-2017, 05:20 AM   #26
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You want to pack a 12 when a 20 will do the job more than adequately at REAL shotgun ranges, have at it.

The 9mm has proven itself far superior to the .45ACP. Get serious. Both 9 and the 5.56 are about Snuffy packing more rounds for today's spray-n-pray training.
Just not exactly used to you taking a smaller caliber/gauge option.

Everything a 20 can do, a 12 can do a little better. Yes, the 12 gives a little stronger push on your shoulder, but that is the price you pay for greater payloads.
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Old 04-03-2017, 07:02 AM   #27
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Man, that was certainly a vote for inconsistency! Touting a 12 when a 20 will do the same job at REAL shotgun ranges then turning around and backing the 9mm when the .45/11.25mm does a better job with fewer rounds down range.

Oh, well. To each his own.

FYI, I own two short 12s and one short 20. Here are my favorite two.





Forgot to mention the Savage has a Full tube fitted. I'll mike the diameter one of these days.

Last edited by csmkersh; 04-03-2017 at 07:42 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 04-03-2017, 08:05 AM   #28
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Man, that was certainly a vote for inconsistency! Touting a 12 when a 20 will do the same job at REAL shotgun ranges then turning around and backing the 9mm when the .45/11.25mm does a better job with fewer rounds down range.

Oh, well. To each his own.
Perhaps someone could enlighten me as to which emoji to use for sarcasm?

Doubting Uncle Sam are We?

Sounds allot like fielding a .223 Rodent cartridge instead of Battle proven .30 Caliber cartridge to me?

But the 9 mm has proven itself to far superior to the .45 ACP.


Even though Uncle Sam has taken away most of the proven performers from WWII, the 12 Gauge is still the only shotgun on the roster. If I new which emoji to use for sarcasm I would have placed it at the end of the underlined statements.

I do miss the hammer on the Old Winchester Model 97.
https://winchestercollector.org/wp-c...14/02/1897.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1897
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Old 04-03-2017, 09:38 AM   #29
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Why are you stuck on military weaponry? Are you still an operator or think civilians should only emulate the military in their weapons? I did my 32 then retired in '87. Since I've done a little as a deputy sheriff and furnished my own "tools of the trade."

I said, "Oh, well. To each his own." if you can't go that route, then just go away.
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Old 04-03-2017, 10:55 AM   #30
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Forgive me Sir, I don't know exactly how to answer your query. Perhaps if this was about patterning home defense, wing shooting/ hunting shotguns etc... instead of combat shotguns I might better understand.
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Old 04-03-2017, 11:22 AM   #31
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M118LR, you need to define EXACTLY what YOU have in mind as a "combat shotgun." Some like me, consider home defense or police work where a shotgun is used to be combat shooting. It doesn't mean beans whether the tool is a short barreled shotgun or a fowling piece; what matters is did it do the necessary job.

Maybe you should expand from your knowledge as an operator what you have in mind and stop pretending you are seeking information.

Or maybe Ed should just lock the thread.
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Old 04-03-2017, 12:10 PM   #32
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As has been said before, a forum is best when it moderates it's self. Over the past several years there has been very little cause to moderate on this forum other than wishing Spammers to the cornfield. Lately the storm clouds have been gathering and you M118LR -- whether deserved or not -are always at the eye of the storm, annoying veteran and new members alike. you may want to work on your posting style. Sam is certainly not the only one who thinks your style is pretending to ask a question so you can then tell us all you know. There are plenty of experts on this board, you can tell who they are by the fact that they don't advertise their expertise.

As far as being on "Operator," M118LR said it best, "Trust half of what you read and less of what you hear..." "Operators" that tell everyone listening or otherwise that they are/were an "Operator" usually get their medals from ebay and their experience from history books. ,

590a1, being snarky and thin-skined at the same time is not a good combo.

Everybody learn to play nice or find another board that put up with you.

No rebuttals required.

Last edited by SpecialEd; 04-03-2017 at 12:12 PM.
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