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Old 03-23-2013, 04:34 AM   #1
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Small pocket pistol technique?

Folks,
Back during WWII the British shadow people were taught to use small pocket pistols with a grip consisting of the forefinger pointing at the target, the second finger pulling the trigger and the ring and small finger around the grip.
Has anyone tried this technique with a modern pocket pistol?
Geoff
Who is looking at his LCP...
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Old 03-23-2013, 06:18 AM   #2
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Actually my LCP is lying on the desk and holding it that way does seem to point instinctively but I wonder if the forefinger might not interfere with slide movement.

Hadn't heard of the technique and wonder what gun they were thinking about.
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Old 03-23-2013, 12:00 PM   #3
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Sounds like the old Sykes/Fairbairn/Applegate point shooting style.
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Old 03-23-2013, 05:17 PM   #4
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Sounds like the old British method.
It's been pretty well discredited because you're only holding the gun with the two weakest fingers on your hand and control for multiple shots is lousy, plus knocking it out of your hand is much too easy for an attacker.

In addition it's far from a comfortable, instinctive way to hold a weapon.

Shooting has progressed over the years from the duelist extended one hand method, to the gunfighters pointing method, to various 1930's through 50's FBI crouches to crouches with one hand held over the chest to "deflect a bullet", to several WWII combat methods that looked good, to Jeff Cooper and Jack Weaver's Modern Pistol Method, to todays gun methods.

At least todays methods are getting a really good work out both in various real world style shooting competitions, to Real World gunfights.
There's a LOT of people trying a LOT of things these days versus a few experts back then who thought they were onto something.
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Old 03-25-2013, 01:44 PM   #5
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Under the Name...

..."Vermont technique," it had a brief resurgence in American law enforcement a few years ago. I recall one former federal LE firearms instructor mentioning that he taught it occasionally to help petite female agent-trainees get enough leverage on the trigger so that they could "qualify" with service pistols with DA triggers.

(I know that this thread started out limited to autoloading pistols but the photograph makes it very clear that Jack Ruby used this technique to shoot Lee Harvey Oswald with a D-frame Colt revolver. As I recall, in Unintended Consequences, John Ross used that observation to argue that Ruby must have had some "spook" training in order to know the technique.)
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:42 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spwenger View Post
..."Vermont technique," it had a brief resurgence in American law enforcement a few years ago. I recall one former federal LE firearms instructor mentioning that he taught it occasionally to help petite female agent-trainees get enough leverage on the trigger so that they could "qualify" with service pistols with DA triggers.

(I know that this thread started out limited to autoloading pistols but the photograph makes it very clear that Jack Ruby used this technique to shoot Lee Harvey Oswald with a D-frame Colt revolver. As I recall, in Unintended Consequences, John Ross used that observation to argue that Ruby must have had some "spook" training in order to know the technique.)
Just as long as your finger isn't longer than the barrel. Cylinder gaps could be interesting too, though one might not be bothered by that under the stress of actual combat shooting.

As for Ruby, maybe, but another possibility is that he knew a lot of the local police, which was part of how he got into the station. It is quite possible he had picked up the technique from them.
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:02 AM   #7
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Excellent Point!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidE View Post
Just as long as your finger isn't longer than the barrel. Cylinder gaps could be interesting too, though one might not be bothered by that under the stress of actual combat shooting.
I am not an advocate of the technique and I will add that to my list of arguments against it.

Quote:
As for Ruby, maybe, but another possibility is that he knew a lot of the local police, which was part of how he got into the station. It is quite possible he had picked up the technique from them.
Please note that I cited that as John Ross's argument, not mine. As enjoyable a read as Unintended Consequences is, that would not be the only error in it.
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:34 AM   #8
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A few years ago a guy even developed a new grip for handguns to make said technique easier.

If someone were to use that technique, to me it would make sense to do it gangster style. I mean, that’s the way people point isn’t it? Palm down, looking right over the index finger. I just can’t see me ever doing this.
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Old 05-19-2013, 09:49 AM   #9
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I've got way too many thousands of dryfire and live rds spent, using the usual grip to think in terms of unlearning all that. Anything new would have to be proving itself to be beating all the old stuff by a huge margin, if it were to be of interest.
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