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Old 11-06-2010, 05:24 AM   #21
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Re: Handicapped Tactics...What I Never Thought Of Before

Quote:
Originally Posted by spwenger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Watters
Didn't a couple of leathersmiths make something called a "driver's holster"? As I remember it, these were severely raked crossdraw holsters intended to used from a seated position. In some ways, it was kind of like the IPSC holsters popular in the early 1980s, but positioned further across the belly to the weak side.
One who still offers something like that is Ken Null - see his VAM. I believe that the primary problem with trying to use that concept in a wheelchair is interference with the draw stroke by the chair's arms, much like with a fanny pack. Then, arguably, there are the objections stated above - in response to my earlier posting - to having to use a blanket or garment folded in the lap in order to remain discreet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spwenger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Watters
The answer to the restricted draw stroke could be to cut down the front almost like a competition holster.
Agreed but you would likely either need some sort of thumb-break on a leather holster or some judicious boning on a Kydex holster once you did that. Either way, it sounds like custom work.
“Spwenger”/“Daniel Watters”

I fully agree that there could be interference issues but there is also the problem that the driver’s holsters are, in fact, belt holsters and the initially described mode of dress in this particular thread was “sweats”. In fact, it was stated that nothing was worn “…with belt loops to which one could secure a holster.”

That said, “Driver’s Holsters” are pretty neat concepts but I think that they generally fell out of favor (and ultimately out of the catalogs of the firms that developed them) because of the restrictions that accompanied most of those that I saw. At least one came stamped with a warning about not using it for anything but its advertised application. No matter how well made it was or how good it was at its intended purpose, a notice like that would be enough to make almost anybody think twice.

Even the Null that you mentioned here (and I think the world of his work) is something that if done in production by a major house would have issues too; for “pull thru” snaps (just like “directional” snaps and even regular ones) can be a nightmare if not closely inspected for proper dimensions and performance as well as correct installation. So on one hand you could have the concern that they would not “pull thru” and on the other (when they are working correctly) and the holster is worn as a crossdraw in anything but a seated position, you would be all but offering up an unsecured weapon to anybody standing in front of you (for if you can “pull it thru” so can anyone else). With the latter half of that statement being true even with the Null version, it is no wonder that other one came with warnings!

As to that “competition holster” concept, other than my concerns over retention from attack and again the need to have something like a blanket (which I don’t think is always practical) to cover the holstered firearm, rather than have to customize something, if IrishCop’s later-mentioned Model 29 is a 6” gun, something like Safariland’s “002 ‘Cup Challenge’ Competition Holster” might be a good place to start. As it is a front rake, I would think that for a right handed individual, one could take a left hand model and attach it to a belt segment affixed to the armrest upright (perhaps along the lines of the method I mentioned in my previous post) and have it work along the lines you guys are suggesting. Something like Ted Blocker’s leather PPC Holster might work too but while it has a strap for retention, I’m not familiar enough with it to know for sure (it might take too much contorting to disengage when used in this manner).

If a belt could be worn or if you wanted to again attach a belt segment to the armrest upright (remembering that in this case, again one would have to purchase a holster originally designed for the non-dominant hand), the Bell Charter Oak “I.C.E. Scabbard” for J-Frame type 2” revolvers (and others) with exposed hammer spurs and their “Co-Pilot”, which would work with IrishCop’s Model 49 (and others) are two models to consider. Interestingly, and I have not talked to them about it, but their (again) belt-requiring, open top “Challenger Crossdraw” for 2” revolvers is said to have been “designed specifically to meet the needs of those who must use a wheelchair or powerchair”! They also make a holster called the “Elegant” for small-caliber autos that might be of use as a crossdraw here but I am not sure. And while I haven’t had a chance to check, Blade-Tech might have something of merit here too.

Kramer Handgun Leather makes an open-top Crossdraw for certain weapons in both cowhide and horsehide and the equine version might be better suited because of the historical belief that it would offer better resistance to body heat and perspiration. The slight front rake of Mitch Rosen’s female-oriented, open top NSP holster might allow it to be used in this application but its minimal rake and special design features make it something that would really have to be studied to make sure it is right for one’s application before committing to it. He also makes a conventional open top Crossdraw that could work here (if like with all of these holsters, a belt or belt segment is used as previously described) but he also goes one step further and offers one of those radically angled Crossdraws that started this discussion: his “Counter Car Jacking Rig”. Interestingly, he says that it “…is a situation-specific cross-draw ONLY” (emphasis his). He then goes on to say that their “…recommendation is to have your CCR™ in the glove box, and upon entering the vehicle, put it on and switch your weapon from whichever rig you might be wearing…”. I don’t blame him for saying this but such a statement only goes to prove out what I said at the beginning of this note: with something that complicated for the average “driver”, only but the most dedicated would buy one. That is not an issue here but for the general public it would obviously complicate things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guntotin_fool
Well, I posted a reply last night but something happened

I helped a friend who had diabetes take one of his legs and his off foot, and he was in a chair for a long time. We were able to fasten a holster to the outside of his chair, where the side panel of the arm rest assembly is located. over that, we fastened another layer of material that mimicked his upholstered armrest. It simply looked like part of the chair. When he was moving, it was as simple as him sliding his hand off the drive ring and onto his weapon in a split second. the doing is easy, its the thought process that can be difficult
“guntotin_fool”:

I certainly respect your ingenuity and your loyalty to your friend. Your solution is a good one and I’m glad that it worked for him.

But it might be something not applicable to all chairs (depending on the width of the armrest, which could interfere with access into the pouch and depending on the distance between wheel and the armrest upright, could affect the size of the compartment as well as access to it).

And if someone was not well practiced and well coordinated, I would also have concerns about their ability to reach and produce the gun as easily as in the manner you describe; especially if the wheel is turning as you suggest for that could lead to even more issues. I am not faulting your logic or your friend’s abilities; it’s just that other than making things for myself and friends as favors in my free time, my “real” work has always required me to either design (or recommend) things for the least common denominator or, at a minimum, with an eye toward general liability.

Finally, from a training perspective (and also recalling "kg5388’s" concerns in an earlier posting about having the draw blocked), I also have some concerns about both the retention of a gun carried in an outboard position and the means of producing and protecting it (and the user) during the draw as well.

Still, if it worked safely for your buddy, I’m glad. There was a period in my life when I had the time to make things that worked great for their original (and ultimately only) owners and in remembering how those things helped them, I congratulate you here. It’s really neat to be able to do that.
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Old 11-06-2010, 09:12 AM   #22
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Re: Handicapped Tactics...What I Never Thought Of Before

Irish Cop, thank you for your service.
I am luck to have done much training with Mas and many oters and am now teaching courses at Ft. Huachuca for inter-agency folks. But, I am normally at WTU (Warrior Transition Unit) where I work specifically with wounded warriors. Having been one myself it was natural. Prior to teaching these people I read everything Mas has written on the subject, took my own experiences and put it together.
I have soldiers in much worse shape than you are as far as upper body is concerned so the first thing we look at is hand strength. You are thankfully beyond that.
You have gotten much advice here that follows exactly what I have found and I read everything that Steve Wenger and Charlie write about anything.
Perhaps I can just add a few things we have found out.
1. We review the concepts of point shooting and try to teach getting the handgun to center body. The turds who will assault folks in a wheelchair will do so very often very close. We fire the first shot holding the handgun close and extend as we shoot.
2. We teach the Zipper, start at the belly and work up.
3. Holsters, we want the firearm secure if possible, not carried in a towel unless you are in an area you are in condition orange and then we want it out. If you have the finger dexterity the Blackhawk Serpa is our choice. The most secure is a hookup on the wheelchair, dominant had side. Next is a shoulder holster and I have a spare Bianchi for a 1911 if you want it. With the shoulder holster you must secure the bottom so it remains stable when you draw.
4. Handguns. Glock 19's are the choice of most with Ruger LCR's coming up quickly. 1911's have a solid following. For folks with weak hands the Walther P22 is the favorite and I got a call from Ruger Management that they are planning to put the LCR in .22 just for folks who need a defense gun but have trouble with recoil.

If you use a semi auto here is a tip we picked up from one of the Phoenix area Tactical teams we trained with last year. Put skateboard tape on the top of your slide one piece behind the front sight , one piece in front of the rear site, so if you have to rack the slide with one hand the tape will work on any clothes you have on and will rack very easily.
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Old 11-07-2010, 05:26 AM   #23
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Re: Handicapped Tactics...What I Never Thought Of Before

Whew! To say I am overwhelmed by the response to my posts would be an understatement. The myriad of experiences, ideas and techniques expressed here provides not just food for thought...it's a freakin' banquet!

First, my thanks to all wishing me well...it is much appreciated.

Threefeathers, appreciate your sentiment, but I don't want any misconceptions here. While I was on duty and traveling to work, it ain't like I was chasing Jeffery Dahmer down the highway while he was chewing on a rib bone. I became distracted, took my eyes off the road for a second, and like Mila Jovovich said in The Fifth Element, "Big Bada Boom!" Thank God no one else was hurt. Wouldn't be able to live with that.

As P. Marlowe pointed out, I am usually wearing sweats or lounging PJ's. Sorry to be blunt, but when you can't place any weight on either leg, are sitting on a toilet and have to pull your pants up, you really want to keep it simple. Any type of belt rig is out of the question.

Since I am in a healing process, and my condition is no way permanent, my chair is a loaner. Don't think it would be proper to perform any modifications, temporary or otherwise to it.

In an earlier, unrelated thread, I bemoaned the use of lasers. As usual, I opened my fat Irish mouth and inserted probably both my feet. Here's that story...

While out and about with the wife last week, we stopped by my favorite local Gun Store. I hadn't been there in a couple of months, and they had tried to file a missing persons report on me. Anyway, while I was BS'ing with the counter guys, the wife was shopping around. She found a black nylon (cordura?) bag with a strap, meant to carry shotgun shells in the field. She thought it was a man bag. And it was about the right size for wallet, pen, knife, cell phone and small revolver. So we picked it up. Tried it out with my Model 49, and it worked fine, but darned if that little all steel J frame didn't get a little heavy.

Yesterday, we were out at Academy Sports picking up my grandson his birthday present. 'Course while I was there I had to look over their firearms selection. I spotted one of S&W's new Bodyguards. Polymer lower frame, aluminum upper, steel cylinder and barrel insert, cylinder release now just behind the rear sight, built in laser.The newly designed grips felt good to my hand, and the gun was much lighter than my 49.

So, after a few minutes of But this new little gun from S&W has a nice little trigger a grown man in a wheelchair groveling in public, the wife gave in.

Bringing it home and trying it out, I find myself quite enamored of the laser feature. Yeah it has it's drawbacks, but the advantages are now much more apparent to me.

And before anyone else brings it up, I am one of those "give me blue steel and wood and pinned and recessed" guys (and still am). But this new little Smith is a nice gun, and sold for well under $500.










"
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:08 AM   #24
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Re: Handicapped Tactics...What I Never Thought Of Before

Unlike some other forums, where opinions and advice quickly become challenges to someone else's manhood. this is one of the forums with sufficiently sophisticated users - generally - for people to evaluate proffered information for its broader worth. Thus, even if no one may have hit on the best solution for the OP, many of us have been enriched by the discussion and someone else, in slightly different circumstances, may benefit from it, down the line.

At this late date, I am now wondering about the utility of the Safepacker in a wheelchair. it can be carried at various angles, particularly if worn on a shoulder strap. For those who are comfortable attaching the holster to the chair, it allows that option without permanent modification to the latter (e.g., zip ties through the loop). The fact that the leading edge is velcroed shut makes it similar to the competition holster discussed above, albeit at the cost of a noisy draw stroke. Regardless of how it is employed, it provides its own concealment.
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:51 AM   #25
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Re: Handicapped Tactics...What I Never Thought Of Before

Quote:
Since I am in a healing process, and my condition is no way permanent, my chair is a loaner.
That's the best news of all

Wonder if you were trying to drive and type on the bloody computer at the same time...
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Old 11-07-2010, 07:00 AM   #26
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Re: Handicapped Tactics...What I Never Thought Of Before

This thread is a classic example of why I read this forum every day, even though I seldom post.

Informed, intelligent answers on things that matter.

I came here for advice when my son in Iraq needed M16 magazines he could trust, and based on the responses outfitted him with seven 30 round P-mags.

Now several of his platoon mates have bought them also, including his platoon leader. They have been used in combat, and performed brilliantly.

It is quite possible that the amassed experience and critical thinking here has saved lives.

So I had to stop lurking, and post a thank you to the Board. What you do here matters, more than you might realise.
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Old 11-07-2010, 08:18 AM   #27
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Re: Handicapped Tactics...What I Never Thought Of Before

Quote:
Originally Posted by igli
It is quite possible that the amassed experience and critical thinking here has saved lives.
Many years ago, Jim Cirillo inscribed a copy of Guns, Bullets, and Gunfights to me:
Quote:
If only one life is saved by what we teach, then all the effort, time, and money spent on training will have been worth it!
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Old 11-08-2010, 03:37 PM   #28
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Re: Handicapped Tactics...What I Never Thought Of Before

One slight suggestion, whatever modes of carry you do come up with, you may want to make sure you can access the (a) weapon with either hand. I have seen bags that either attached to chairs by velcro or snaps that might work.

I hear you on weight. Tooling around in a Bobcat utility vehicle (very slowly, it was the rural version of a wheelchair), I noticed the weight of my 60 in the hand tunnel if it was in the wrong place. A fanny pack can be worn with the strap cross shoulder. It may look wierd, but it may work depending upon what you have to do to access the weapon.
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Old 11-13-2010, 04:17 PM   #29
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Re: Handicapped Tactics...What I Never Thought Of Before

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Petty
Quote:
Since I am in a healing process, and my condition is no way permanent, my chair is a loaner.
That's the best news of all

Wonder if you were trying to drive and type on the bloody computer at the same time...
Nope, Charlie, thank goodness! They expanded the patrol division over the last couple of years and the MDT's that CID had were stripped out and transferred to patrol. All that hardware right next to me during this wreck probably would've finished me off.

Now to avoid "Thread Drift" , I have had my little Bodyguard a couple of weeks now, and I'd like to throw some things out to the crowd. Having freely admitted to being an old codger who just ain't happy with new fangled stuff, this little gun impresses me. And there are somethings that I, who ain't no gunsmith, worry about. So there are positive and (possibly) negative traits that this revolver carries. Maybe I'll open a thread in the Handgun section on that.

My wife's choice of that little nylon shotgun shell bag has worked out well for me. The Smith comes with a little zippered carrying case which has an elastic pocket sewn in it to retain the handgun. I have found that zippered case slips into the improvised man-bag, and with the zipper half down and gun positioned butt up, I can reach in with either hand and produce the weapon. The case and elastic "holster" keep everything where I left it.

No folks, it ain't a quick-draw. But I can think of nothing that I could realistically do that would give me that. I have figured out my carry gun and method. Now, as much as I have grown to hate the word, it's time to work on tactics.
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Old 11-13-2010, 06:27 PM   #30
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Re: Handicapped Tactics...What I Never Thought Of Before

Smoeday U'll tell you my horror story about MDTs

Persevere...
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Old 11-14-2010, 02:37 AM   #31
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Re: Handicapped Tactics...What I Never Thought Of Before

Reference the Walther P-22 as suggested for the weak of hand. I am underwhelmed by mine. My front sight disappeared recently and I called S&W. The first thing happened when I mentioned the P-22, the rep wanted to send me a box. The rep was happy to send me just a new front sight, #3 if it matters. Keeping the barrel shroud tight is annoying and worrying as there is no positive stop when it is tightened and I fear I am deforming the threads. The safety system is not hammer drop, but the pistol is classic DA/SA but putting it in DA ready calls for applying the safety and THEN pulling the trigger. Makes me nervous.

That being said, 25 yard called head shots on a half size steel silhouette target are relatively easy, if I'm hot that day, and I lent it to a local military wife and she put 10 rounds into the same target never having fired a P-22 before. She did have time on a Bersa .380.

Question; has anyone actually seen a Firestorm .22 lately? It would seem to fit my desired form factor and the old Bersa .22s were reliable guns.
http://www.shootersjax.com/firestormfir ... duofs.aspx

Geoff
Who finds the Ruger Mk II T-514 a bit heavy for most purposes.
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Old 11-14-2010, 05:00 AM   #32
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Re: Handicapped Tactics...What I Never Thought Of Before

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Petty
Smoeday U'll tell you my horror story about MDTs

Persevere...
I will endeavor to do so...

(Sorry, Charlie...and Chief Dan George. I just couldn't resist!)
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Old 11-27-2010, 07:05 PM   #33
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Re: Handicapped Tactics...What I Never Thought Of Before

Within the past couple of years I was teasing Mas about developing an "LFI wheelchair". While the intent on both sides was humor, perhaps there might be reason for a serious effort, even if not branded.
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Old 11-28-2010, 04:31 AM   #34
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Re: Handicapped Tactics...What I Never Thought Of Before

Quote:
Originally Posted by William R. Moore
Within the past couple of years I was teasing Mas about developing an "LFI wheelchair". While the intent on both sides was humor, perhaps there might be reason for a serious effort, even if not branded.
I really believe there is a need for this type of class. I don't know if there would be enough of a market to allow this type of training to flourish.

There are just so many nuances that I never thought of before my accident...

1) The wheelchair bound are hard pressed to disengage and retreat.
2) Seeking cover and/or concealment is probably not an option
3) If confronted by multiple assailants (animals travel in packs), my 5 shot J frame becomes something of a liability (I do carry 2 Safariland speedloaders, but I'm not kidding myself about my chances of reloading if the first five shots don't fix the problem).
4) My nightmare scenario is for my assailant to overturn my chair leaving me on the ground. One of the reasons I decided on the "man-bag" carry - the weapon stays with me, not attached to my chair.

There are more. I know that every scenario can't be identified, much less addressed, but I sure would like to hear some well thought out approaches to these situations to balance my own.
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Old 11-28-2010, 02:56 PM   #35
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Re: Handicapped Tactics...What I Never Thought Of Before

I was actually referring to the wheelchair itself, largely due to our approaching decrepitude since we both qualify as senior citizens. But, you make very valid points. I expect those who prey on the disabled probably rate the wheelchair bound as utterly helpless. Those with some contrarian experience would probably put them on the ground to start the encounter.

An elevated awareness of cover, your surroundings, possible threats and a willingness to promptly act on bad feelings is probably your best defense. Imitating a badger in his den should ward off all but the terminally determined.

I'll suggest you start making notes of the issues you encounter. It's a starting point for development of a training needs assessment necessary to develop a training program. With the average age of the population going up, there's going to be an increasing need for something like that.
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Old 11-28-2010, 06:41 PM   #36
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Re: Handicapped Tactics...What I Never Thought Of Before

The LFI Wheelchair was whimsical. Ten or more years ago I shot in a match in NH where they had a wheelchair stage, and I won it. Figured I saw my future. (Main reason I won it was that I picked the strongest, fastest guy on the range to push me -- Herm Davison, pistol champ and good sport.)

I conceptualized a wheelchair with a Rolling Rock beer tank in the back between the rear wheels (later added a CamelBak attachment, which seemed somehow appropriate to an American beer drinker of Arabic descent), and a short-barrel stockless Remington 11-87 built into each armrest (left-hand version on the port side, of course), completely concealed by cushioning except for discreet ejection ports. A bridge would come up over the user's lap, mounted to each side of the armrests, with a joystick in the center and a solenoid-operated firing switch on top. The final component would be a fake strongbox down between the footrests.

Figured I could cruise the subways, and when the dirtbags blocked the wheelchair and popped the switchblades and said, "Give it up, ya old cripple," I could reply in a quavering voice, "Sure, Sonny! Just reach down to the strongbox there, and I'll press this release button for ya..."

Whimsy aside, though, Irish Cop needs good advice, and he's getting a lot of it here. My time in wheelchairs has been blessedly brief, short-term trauma related, and my advice is based mostly on what I've been able to work out for my students who have to live in the damn things for the rest of their lives.

For those who can wear dress gunbelts, solid cross-draw rigs seem without question to be the best bet. Some of the injuries that put folks in chairs preclude wearing belts, however, at least belts sturdy enough to secure a holster. In that situation, shoulder holsters are a better answer, if there are no spinal injuries that preclude THOSE.

The wheelchair-bound person who has some use of the legs -- enough to get them off the footrests, soles flat on the ground, with enough leg strength and control to lean body weight forward -- will be able to get upper body weight into the handgun, and shoot very much like an able-bodied shooter in a deep "cover crouch." For our students who are paralyzed waist-down or chest-down, I've found that the best bet is a tight, dynamic Weaver stance from the waist up, that is, both elbows bent; forward elbow pointing down (that's optional for the strong side arm, and elbow angle there will be dependent largely on build and musculature), with the gun hand pushing firmly forward and the support hand pulling firmly back, with equal and opposite pressure. The bent arms become shock absorbers in the way Col Cooper and his protege Greg Morrison have well described in the literature, creating the one handgun "hold" that absoprbs recoil and lets you quickly get back on target for followup shots if your shoulders HAVE to be rearward of your pelvis.

Other points, briefly: attacks on wheelchair patients often begin with the assailants upending the chair and dumping the victim to the ground. I'd recommend that Irish Cop and anyone else in this situation spend much more time than the rest of us practicing firing from the ground in every imaginable awkward position. Yes, it requires assistants to get you in and out of the positions.

We also found technicques that will work with long guns, and were able to adapt half or more of the handgun retention techniques (based largely on those leverage-centered techniques developed by Jim Lindell) work for people who were trapped in chairs and could not step, slide, or pivot to "position of advantage."

Irish Cop, best of luck to you. If I can be of any assistance, please PM me here.
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Old 11-29-2010, 05:56 AM   #37
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Re: Handicapped Tactics...What I Never Thought Of Before

Quote:
Originally Posted by William R. Moore
I was actually referring to the wheelchair itself, largely due to our approaching decrepitude since we both qualify as senior citizens. But, you make very valid points. I expect those who prey on the disabled probably rate the wheelchair bound as utterly helpless. Those with some contrarian experience would probably put them on the ground to start the encounter.

An elevated awareness of cover, your surroundings, possible threats and a willingness to promptly act on bad feelings is probably your best defense. Imitating a badger in his den should ward off all but the terminally determined.

I'll suggest you start making notes of the issues you encounter. It's a starting point for development of a training needs assessment necessary to develop a training program. With the average age of the population going up, there's going to be an increasing need for something like that.
William, sorry I didn't get the "design a wheelchair" thing. I don't think I could come anywhere near the perfection of design that Mas describes in a later post.

On a more serious note, a real big +1 on the importance of situational awareness. Now I do want to make clear that in the 17 years I have been a deputy sheriff, I have never heard of an incident which involved an assault/robbery of a wheelchair bound victim. Let me take that back...a drunk redneck neighbor set fire to a house in which the only occupant was a wheelchair bound man. Two local officers were able to get him out of the house, and the offender was arrested by me and my partner. But this was a long standing feud between these two parties. I have seen cases where the elderly or infirm are abused or taken advantage of.

Guess what I'm trying to say is that there is a very small chance that will be accosted by anyone wishing me ill...even the a**holes I lock up, when I meet them on the street, have never given me any grief. But the whole point of training is to be ready when the fecal matter does hit the rotating oscillator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mas Ayoob
The LFI Wheelchair was whimsical. Ten or more years ago I shot in a match in NH where they had a wheelchair stage, and I won it. Figured I saw my future. (Main reason I won it was that I picked the strongest, fastest guy on the range to push me -- Herm Davison, pistol champ and good sport.)

I conceptualized a wheelchair with a Rolling Rock beer tank in the back between the rear wheels (later added a CamelBak attachment, which seemed somehow appropriate to an American beer drinker of Arabic descent), and a short-barrel stockless Remington 11-87 built into each armrest (left-hand version on the port side, of course), completely concealed by cushioning except for discreet ejection ports. A bridge would come up over the user's lap, mounted to each side of the armrests, with a joystick in the center and a solenoid-operated firing switch on top. The final component would be a fake strongbox down between the footrests.

Figured I could cruise the subways, and when the dirtbags blocked the wheelchair and popped the switchblades and said, "Give it up, ya old cripple," I could reply in a quavering voice, "Sure, Sonny! Just reach down to the strongbox there, and I'll press this release button for ya..."

Whimsy aside, though, Irish Cop needs good advice, and he's getting a lot of it here. My time in wheelchairs has been blessedly brief, short-term trauma related, and my advice is based mostly on what I've been able to work out for my students who have to live in the damn things for the rest of their lives.

For those who can wear dress gunbelts, solid cross-draw rigs seem without question to be the best bet. Some of the injuries that put folks in chairs preclude wearing belts, however, at least belts sturdy enough to secure a holster. In that situation, shoulder holsters are a better answer, if there are no spinal injuries that preclude THOSE.

The wheelchair-bound person who has some use of the legs -- enough to get them off the footrests, soles flat on the ground, with enough leg strength and control to lean body weight forward -- will be able to get upper body weight into the handgun, and shoot very much like an able-bodied shooter in a deep "cover crouch." For our students who are paralyzed waist-down or chest-down, I've found that the best bet is a tight, dynamic Weaver stance from the waist up, that is, both elbows bent; forward elbow pointing down (that's optional for the strong side arm, and elbow angle there will be dependent largely on build and musculature), with the gun hand pushing firmly forward and the support hand pulling firmly back, with equal and opposite pressure. The bent arms become shock absorbers in the way Col Cooper and his protege Greg Morrison have well described in the literature, creating the one handgun "hold" that absoprbs recoil and lets you quickly get back on target for followup shots if your shoulders HAVE to be rearward of your pelvis.

Other points, briefly: attacks on wheelchair patients often begin with the assailants upending the chair and dumping the victim to the ground. I'd recommend that Irish Cop and anyone else in this situation spend much more time than the rest of us practicing firing from the ground in every imaginable awkward position. Yes, it requires assistants to get you in and out of the positions.

We also found technicques that will work with long guns, and were able to adapt half or more of the handgun retention techniques (based largely on those leverage-centered techniques developed by Jim Lindell) work for people who were trapped in chairs and could not step, slide, or pivot to "position of advantage."

Irish Cop, best of luck to you. If I can be of any assistance, please PM me here.
Love the wheelchair design, Mas. So do the built in shotguns have recoil absorbers, or do I have to remember to lock down the wheels before employing same?

My injuries are hip down, so I am able to take the shoulders forward Weaver stance. Did so without thinking when I took my new BG38 out to play. Recoil was sharp but controllable with +P in the stance.

Anyway, thanks to all. I go see my surgeons tomorrow. Hopefully, I'll get to start a more aggressive physical therapy routine, and I'll be able to put the chair behind me (no pun intended). I'm not gonna forget what I've learned though. It has been interesting.
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Old 12-04-2010, 12:45 PM   #38
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Re: Handicapped Tactics...What I Never Thought Of Before

I had thought of a below the seat mounted gun but this guy has me beat!
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Old 12-04-2010, 04:49 PM   #39
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Re: Handicapped Tactics...What I Never Thought Of Before

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Originally Posted by SpecialEd
I had thought of a below the seat mounted gun but this guy has me beat!
Now that is AWESOME! Looks like it's an ATV, too! Wonder if Workmans Comp would spring for that?
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Old 12-05-2010, 06:09 AM   #40
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Re: Handicapped Tactics...What I Never Thought Of Before

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Originally Posted by Mas Ayoob
attacks on wheelchair patients often begin with the assailants upending the chair and dumping the victim to the ground.
This strongly, STRONGLY suggests to me that you want the gun strapped to your body somehow, NOT in a separate bag or a chair-mounted holster. Earlier I had thought of posting that a "purse" or bag arrangement didn't sound like a good idea to me because I'd think that a bag-snatch would be a common type of attack.

I'm liking the belly band--or perhaps fanny pack (secured, of course, not just laying there)--idea more and more.
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