Magic Widgets - Gun Hub
Gun Hub

Go Back   Gun Hub > Gun Hub Forum > Shooting

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-13-2010, 01:20 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,155
Magic Widgets

I may have beat this drum before, but there've been a few threads lately that seem to indicate it bears repeating:

There are, and always have been, various devices that supposedly improve your shooting ability simply by having them on your firearm. They may have been developed or endoresd by some famous name shooter.

Bluntly, the famous name shooter earned their famous name through dedication, extensive practice intended to produce performance improvement (not burning rounds) and rigorous adherance to the fundamentals (in this case, of marksmanship). There simply is no other way to develop a high level of skill at any endevor.

As an example, I've been at matches where a couple of the competitors had famous name muzzle brakes on their tactical rifles. The brakes produced spectacular muzzle flashes in reduced light and greatly increased the muzzle blast. Neither are desirable results in a tactical environment. If one finds the recoil of a .223 to be an issue, a physical fitness program is cheaper, better for you and more appropriate to the simulated problem requiring resolution. So is additional training by someone who knows the subject matter.

You can't buy skill with widgets.
William R. Moore is offline  
Old 06-13-2010, 01:37 PM   #2
Moderator
 
Snake45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: "Close, but no donut!"
Posts: 12,693
Re: Magic Widgets

I remember a few years ago, someone was selling some sort of grip system for 1911s. It had all sorts of fancy "inserts" that would position your trigger finger "just right," and maybe removable weights, and in general a whole lot of moving parts and complication to replace a couple slabs of wood or plastic. The grip "system" had someone's name on it--some "famous" shooter I'd never heard of before. I laughed openly first time I saw the ad. It didn't run very long.
Snake45 is offline  
Old 06-14-2010, 06:02 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tenn
Posts: 973
Re: Magic Widgets

Quote:
Originally Posted by William R. Moore
There are, and always have been, various devices that supposedly improve your shooting ability simply by having them on your firearm. They may have been developed or endoresd by some famous name shooter.
I fellow who used to shoot in my club's informal IDPA-type matches spent a bunch of money to "improve" his shooting. Convinced a the factory barrel in his Glock was the problem, he bought a an aftermarket barrel. He would swear the full-lenght guide rod made his 1911 more accurate. He modified S&W revolvers more ways than I can remember.

I watched him try out several of the improved pistols and he seemed to shoot better. But, before long he would be back to his usual standard and would look for something else to cure the problem.

I believe his improved shooting was due to him concentrating on the fundamentals and getting better results. The widget may or may not have imroved the pistols' performance, but at least did no harm. At our level of ability, a half-second improvemnt on the El Presidente would not make much difference and hardly been noticed.
JRWnTN is offline  
 
Old 06-14-2010, 06:24 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Charlie Petty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,955
Re: Magic Widgets

Dean used to give great advice when somebody asked about what gadgets to buy... "ammo" was all he said

I was at a big sporting clays shoot and there was a guy there with a fine o/u shotgun and wearing a bandoleir across high chest with choke tubes in 0.001" increments. There was a holster on his belt to hold a cordless screwdriver adapted for a choke tube wrench.

As he was waiting his turn he would carefully study the shots at the station, select the proper tubes and screw them in. I watched him for some time and don't believe he hit a single bird.

I was shooting behind him and frequently had to wait a minute to regain my composure...
Charlie Petty is offline  
Old 06-14-2010, 06:41 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
BobMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: The wilds of SE Pennsylvania
Posts: 430
Re: Magic Widgets

You know, I have a nice side-by-side 12 ga. A. H. Fox. No widgets. Just a slightly shortened stock with a good recoil pad added. Fits me well. I shoot trap with it and also hunt with it. I don't always hit the clay bird or the pheasant but I know where the shot string is going.

BobMac
BobMac is offline  
Old 06-14-2010, 06:58 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 671
Re: Magic Widgets

A couple of officers and I took the beat up nasty looking shotguns out of the patrol cars and took them to a skeet match . We got laughed at for the horrible looking beat up 18" no choke shotguns. Several people with shotguns costing more than we made in a month told us we'd never hit anything with our shotguns. They stopped laughing when we out shot them It was one of the most fun times I'd ever had at a range We also shot skeet with a 1911 (had a good empty area down range, so it was somewhat safe). No one was laughing at us when we left!!
V-Man is offline  
Old 06-14-2010, 08:41 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Charlie Petty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,955
Re: Magic Widgets

Many years ago some lying so and so accused me of shooting doves on duty with the Ithaca 37. Fortunately nobody saw the #8s in my briefcase...
Charlie Petty is offline  
Old 06-14-2010, 09:55 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Tim Burke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Still in NC
Posts: 1,875
Re: Magic Widgets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Petty
I watched him for some time and don't believe he hit a single bird.
I was shooting behind him and frequently had to wait a minute to regain my composure.
He was a plant, intended to distract the other shooters and provide a competitive advantage to the guy that hired him.

It's the only scenario I can think of that makes sense.
Tim Burke is offline  
Old 06-14-2010, 11:36 AM   #9
Moderator
 
Snake45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: "Close, but no donut!"
Posts: 12,693
Re: Magic Widgets

Quote:
Originally Posted by V-Man
A couple of officers and I took the beat up nasty looking shotguns out of the patrol cars and took them to a skeet match . We got laughed at for the horrible looking beat up 18" no choke shotguns. Several people with shotguns costing more than we made in a month told us we'd never hit anything with our shotguns. They stopped laughing when we out shot them It was one of the most fun times I'd ever had at a range.
The few times I've ever shot skeet have all been with either a Rem 870 or Mossberg 500 with 18-20" barrel, because that's all I have available. It's always funny to hear the regular skeet snots complain about the "noise" of my guns. (I'm often tempted to answer, in a Russian accent, "Iss GONN! Mekes NOISE! DEAL wit it!")

I've never "outshot" hardly anyone except the occasional first-timer, but for as little as I do it, I'm pleased if I can break 16 or 18, including one or more of the doubles. I'm of the belief that if you don't have a "combat shotgun" range or training available to you, if you can shoot a round of skeet every once in a while and break half the targets or more, you'll be pretty darn effective in a shotgun fight.
Snake45 is offline  
Old 06-15-2010, 07:53 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 671
Re: Magic Widgets

Correction: We didn't out shoot all of the guys shooting, but did out shoot the ones making the most noise This was just after (maybe a couple of months) after we had gone to a three day combat shotgun course. At the course, we had to shoot "pepper poppers" (steel silhouettes) with slugs at 150 yards to pass.
V-Man is offline  
Old 06-15-2010, 10:40 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Charlie Petty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,955
Re: Magic Widgets

Quote:
It's the only scenario I can think of that makes sense.
1. who says it has to make sense?

2. could there possibly be a better proof of, "you can't gadget yourself to competency.

3. I wasn't going to win the shoot anyhow but it really is hard to concentrate when you're giggling. So maybe he was a plant.
Charlie Petty is offline  
Old 06-15-2010, 01:27 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Tim Burke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Still in NC
Posts: 1,875
Re: Magic Widgets

Well, you probably weren't the only one giggling.
Tim Burke is offline  
Old 06-15-2010, 07:42 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Charlie Petty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,955
Re: Magic Widgets

I sure hope not.

Somebody accused me of making that up... but I don't do fiction
Charlie Petty is offline  
Old 06-16-2010, 02:57 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 671
Re: Magic Widgets

I too have been surprised at the amount of money some people will spend on this or that gadget guaranteed to make them shoot better. Occasionally it's worth a good giggle (but I don't think it's a good idea to giggle at armed people that seem to lack some sense). It is interesting to see some of the stuff in person; especially since I'm not going to spend money on it.
V-Man is offline  
Old 06-19-2010, 06:04 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,118
Re: Magic Widgets

Charlie, I think that guy or his cousin shot at Wolf Creek in Atlanta. I squadded with him several times....
Al Thompson is offline  
Old 07-14-2010, 09:07 AM   #16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 921
Re: Magic Widgets

In terms of shotguns, fit is extremently important; you'll do better with a $150 used pump that fits you well than you will with an ill-fitting $5000 Perazzi.

In terms of gadgets, there are a few that help - but none will make an indifferent shooter a Master.

* Grips that fit you. Just like having a shotgun that fits you is important, a grip that fits you will allow you to shoot better than an ill-fitting grip. And they can moderate recoil - the Crimson Trace lasergrips I put on my 340Sc help me shoot more accurately and tame the recoil from painful down to merely unpleasant.

* Good sights, suited and positioned for your eyes.

* A proper sling.

* Muzzle brakes or Mag-Na-Porting can make a difference for heavy-recoiling rifles, and they'll even help for small calibers shot in competitive games, so I wouldn't issue a blanket condemnation.

Of course, we've all seen examples where people have pursued this to ridiculous extremes . . . I remember seeing actual ad copy for some sort of "tactical" rifle sling that said something along the lines of "When you have to get into action in a hurry, just push a button, pull a strap, lock down a clamp, and you're good to go."
HankB is offline  
Old 07-14-2010, 01:56 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Skeptic49's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: St. Augustine, FL
Posts: 2,253
Re: Magic Widgets

Quote:
Originally Posted by V-Man
A couple of officers and I took the beat up nasty looking shotguns out of the patrol cars and took them to a skeet match . We got laughed at for the horrible looking beat up 18" no choke shotguns. ... They stopped laughing when we out shot them
And did you remember to mention that the Chief/Sheriff/etc. wanted you to shoot up all those old buckshot rounds....

Geoff
Who hopes you didn't miss an opportunity like that...
Skeptic49 is offline  
Old 05-19-2013, 10:00 AM   #18
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 68
I beg to differ. Maybe not high level performance by a pro, but a fair to middling guy can add a trigger job, red dot optic, and sound suppressor to his M4 and do one helleva lot better at most realistic simulations of rifle type combat. That is to say, he can get reliable hits considerably faster.
whatsit is offline  
Old 05-19-2013, 10:02 AM   #19
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 68
I don't see how being slow at handling a shotgun (ie, skeet) and starting with the gun at your shoulder and calling for the target, is any help at all, actually. Those wont be the conditions in a gunfight.
whatsit is offline  
Reply

  Gun Hub > Gun Hub Forum > Shooting

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
209 Cartouche magic Guy B. Meredith M1 Garand 4 06-26-2005 09:07 AM




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2002 - 2017 Gun Hub. All rights reserved.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.