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Old 06-24-2005, 01:07 PM   #1
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home defense for wife

Ok, here's a fairly involved question, so bear with me. I'm looking at buying a gun for my wife to have handy while she's at home alone. In the area where we live, getting a permit for a handgun is difficult and takes at least six months. I'm looking for something in the meantime. She is a very small and light woman and really can't handle the recoil of a 12 or even 20 gauge shotgun. She has some experience shooting, but not a lot. She is a suprisingly good shot, but I'm always there to give her a hand with the loading and operation of the guns she shoots. So, what I'm looking for is something thats small with little or no recoil, but that still has good knockdown power. It is also very important that it is easy to load and use (not to put my wife down. If I ever need it for defense, I'm sure I'll be shaking too). Any suggestions? I was thinking about a little carbine that shoots pistol ammo. As a little aside, if it happens to accept high capacity magazines, it might be fun for me to do a little blasting at the range. Thanks a lot for the help.
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Old 06-24-2005, 01:24 PM   #2
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You may want to check out the thread on best PDW for a woman over on the carbine board.

The M1 Carbine would have my vote. If I dare say, most black rilfes are for more advanced shooters. The M1 Carbine is almost an intuitive weapon for anyone that has seen or handled a rifle. It is almost cute, short, wooden, missing a lot of the "evil" features the general public associates with black rifles.

Load it with name brand soft point ammo, practice, practice with full metal jackets, and you have a great PDW for the home.
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Old 06-24-2005, 06:18 PM   #3
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wife's gun

I second the motion on the m1 carbine. Just make sure its reliable with the ammo you are choosing. You also might want to consider the KELTEC SUB 2000 in 9mm or 40sw. Its cheap, relaible and will do the job. One drawback is that it might tricky for the wife to chamber a round, but check it out. I have both and they are a lot of fun especially the m1.
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Old 06-24-2005, 10:57 PM   #4
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I agree with the keltec or go with the high point. Load with a good 9mm Like Gold dot or the like.
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Old 06-25-2005, 05:30 AM   #5
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While the keltec is a fun little cheap carbine I'm not sure it would be the best for a small female. I had one in 9mm and got rid of it for the very reason that my wife found it extremely difficult to chamber a round. I also found the sights difficult to see in low light. Other than those 2 complaints though, we did have a lot of fun with it at the range and it does take high cap mags.
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Old 06-29-2005, 07:46 AM   #6
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A .410 shotgun would be a good choice. Not much recoil, and no bullets penetrating walls and going to a neighbor's house. A Saiga .410 is based on the AK47 design, with replacable clips for fast reloading. A Mossberg 500 pump in .410 is what my wife has, with a pistol grip and 18'' barrel.
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Old 07-01-2005, 02:43 PM   #7
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I hear a Snake Charmer .410 gauge single shot shotgun is good for the ladies....just blows those snakes in two!!!
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Old 07-05-2005, 06:11 AM   #8
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My biggest problem with the M1Carbine is the ammo selection. Reliability issues seem to come up with HP and some SP. I wouldn't suggest ball ammo in a home. They are probable the best HD choice if you can't handle a shotgun.

I love my Mini 14s.
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Old 07-05-2005, 09:09 PM   #9
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I'd go with the M1 carbine, or possibly an AR15 chambered for a pistol cartridge. Would have to be fairly careful with that second choice, since a real Colt 9mm is fairly expensive, and the aftermarket options involve quite a bit of do-it-yourself work. If I was going to go that route, I'd probably buy my upper from Rock River, and get their recommendation on what other parts/magazines are recommended.
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Old 07-05-2005, 11:30 PM   #10
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For what you've stated about your wife & her limitations I'd second what gunluver said and buy her a .410 pump......

Just my .02


~metalhead
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Old 07-06-2005, 09:39 AM   #11
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Wait a tick...I thought carry permits were for like...carrying in public, and such? I thought you could carry a handgun all you want on your own property.

I was going to suggest a pump .410, but it seems like everyone beat me to it. hahaha. The .30 carbine is nice. I've had very little trouble with mine. I showed a female former co-worker how to shoot, and let her shoot my carbine, and she liked it most. Though it was pretty funny watching her trying to shoot my AR15A2. hahaha. Its surprising how nobody knows how to hold an AR15. hahaha. Or what about a ruger PC9, or whatever its called?
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Old 07-06-2005, 07:47 PM   #12
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I thought that too Cap- but my buddy in Hawaii is going through this now too- needs a class and a long wait.......

Even the PRK's too much; don't need squat really for a rifle but you either need a HSC certificate (Handgun safty class...only good for 5 years) or be a cop, have a CCW, or be an FFL.......... even private party transfer!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Somebody save me from this place!!!!!!!!!
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Old 07-07-2005, 05:39 AM   #13
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Re: home defense for wife

Quote:
Originally Posted by cb77
Ok, here's a fairly involved question, so bear with me. I'm looking at buying a gun for my wife to have handy while she's at home alone. In the area where we live, getting a permit for a handgun is difficult and takes at least six months. I'm looking for something in the meantime. She is a very small and light woman and really can't handle the recoil of a 12 or even 20 gauge shotgun. She has some experience shooting, but not a lot. She is a suprisingly good shot, but I'm always there to give her a hand with the loading and operation of the guns she shoots. So, what I'm looking for is something thats small with little or no recoil, but that still has good knockdown power. It is also very important that it is easy to load and use (not to put my wife down. If I ever need it for defense, I'm sure I'll be shaking too). Any suggestions? I was thinking about a little carbine that shoots pistol ammo. As a little aside, if it happens to accept high capacity magazines, it might be fun for me to do a little blasting at the range. Thanks a lot for the help.
I was looking at home defense carbines myself that accept high cap mags and run on pistol ammunition. This is what seems to be the best choice out there for the money these days. It comes in 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 acp. It has alot of made for rail accessories that can be added on easily for extra electronic sights(Eotech/Aimpoint) and lights and handles. It weighs only 5 3/4 lbs built into a high strength no worry polymer stock and the whole rifle disassembles easily for cleaning. It is designed to be fully ambidextrous for righties and lefties, with a conversion of the ejection port and cocking handles taking only a couple minutes. Many people report them to be highly accurate and effective out to a 100 yards and they run the same mags as some of there pistols. I just bought one myself and will be picking it up on Friday. I bought the 92FS mag capable version with the mindset of buying a 92FS to go with it for common round and magazine capability, which I'll setup on a BlackHawk padded web belt with a holster for the 92FS and spare mags for the Storm and pistol in quick draw pouches which is great for just about any up close worries and something I could use for 3 gun comp later, if I can ever find a competition close enough. You might like it too, as it should be a great carbine that the whole family can use and enjoy to shoot for practice and sport also. The total cost for me after tax was 650.00 (610.00 before)and that's about standard it seems. I've been seeing them for less on Gunbroker.com, but I prefer to buy straight from my trusted dealer who is a good guy and Vet also, than someone I don't know and where they are if I have a problem.
Good luck in your search, Lionseye




http://www.cx4storm.com/index.aspx?m=53&did=72

http://berettausa.com/product/rifles/se ... tseries=18

http://www.houtsenterprises.com/cx4_beretta.html

[img]http://www.cx4storm.com/Moduli/ContentManager/publicimg/wallpaper/wall1_800.jpg[/img]
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Old 07-07-2005, 06:14 AM   #14
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BEFORE you rule out the 12ga pick up a box of Winchester Feather Lights. I have used these for 3 years now in Cowboy Action shooting and the recoil is lighter than 20ga trap loads and even lighter than 410 field loads.

They would not penetrate thru a wall like a 9mm or even a .380 and the weapon using these rounds is very intimidating from the muzzle end. Then pick up a nice used 870 with an 18" barrel and your set to go, unless you want to pistol grip it with a folding type stock.

We have 10 year old kids shooting these rounds at our matches in doubles with no problem and they can't weigh 100 pounds soakin wet.

A decent pump is reliable and not prone to feeding failures as semiauto pistols are if shot "limp wristed" and proper form and technique are not usually practiced in these situations.

Be sure to get the FEATHERLITES by Winchester . The box has a gold feather on it and is marked low noice, low recoil. They are NOT the same as the super lites. Winchester doesn't even mark the load on the box.

Keep in mind that should she ever need to use it, the stress level is going to be high and aiming is NOT going to be a priority. A poorly placed round from a 9mm or even one of the mags MAY slow down an attacker but that same shot with a 12ga will more than likely incapacitate them. Not to mention the sound of racking that first round into the chamber will many times be followed by the door slaming behind the intruder as they leave, especially if they have ever fired a pump shotgun.

If you visit most of the CCW threads where they talk about Conceal and Carry most folks agree that if they need to use their handguns and there are multiple targets the one with the shotgun volunteers to be the first one shot. This is because the shotgun is devastating close range weapon.

Bottom line is when there is an intruder you want them to LEAVE, most folks don't want to shoot someone unless left no other alternative. The sound of a pump jacking a round home is usually enough, if not the visual of a BIG DARK HOLE pointed at you when you round a corner will usually be all the convincing they need (be sure she knows to STAY PUT if there is not an easy & safe escape, behind cover and let them come to you), and finally if pulling the trigger is the only alternative left you want to make sure the person you shoot at stays down and that you do not injure others in adjoining rooms or adjoining houses.

Just one individuals opinion, hope it offers something for you to think about.

DonT
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Old 07-07-2005, 07:36 AM   #15
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Don't overlook a winchester or marlin lever action in .357 or .44 mag.
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Old 07-08-2005, 04:37 PM   #16
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Can't say as I really disagree with anything already said.

A pistol caliber carbine would be a great choice. The .30 Carbine for the M1 Carbine really is more of a pistol round than a rifle round.

The M1 Carbine has traditional non-threatening looks and is very easy to use. But it's not the easiest to mount optics on.

Something newer lilke the Beretta Storm has "modern" looks. This may be a "draw-back" in some areas. But it'll easily mount optics.

I've recently been exposed to Aimpoints and will have one someday.

The Aimpoint is a red-dot type of sight that is wonderful thing. All you have to do is put the dot on your target. Even if the dot is at the extreme edge of the sight picture. It's not neccessary to have the usual cheekweld and sight picture of telescopic sights. Thus the Aimpoint is great in a fastmoving CQC situation. That's why it's so popular with the highspeed/lowdrag guys.

Something to consider.
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Old 07-09-2005, 12:24 PM   #17
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I was about write something different. I missread the subject as " Home defense FROM wife" well I guess I will have to look closer next time.

Travis
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Old 07-14-2005, 06:25 AM   #18
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I have to say go with the shotgun. In a situation where your wife had to use the gun she would never feel the recoil. She will barely hear the sound of it firing. When in an excited state different senses take over and others slow down. If someone is coming into your home, the wife will become over excited (Nervous) and she will shake not noticing it. With a pistol just a little shaking will cause a bullet to miss its target by feet. Police officers have been in up close gun battles, empty their firearm and never hit the intended target. With a shotgun no matter how nervous you are, as long as the gun is pointed at the direction of an attacker, he's going to run, or if she pulls the trigger he will probably be hit with a couple of pellets. Also if you have children, you do not want a pistol or rifle going off inside. Drywall and 2x4's don't stop bullets very well and someone sleeping or in another part of the house can be hit unintentionally. So I say a short barrel, open choke, double barrel shotgun, 16 gauge.
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Old 09-05-2005, 08:13 AM   #19
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I think a Ruger PC9 would also be a good choice. I would find some 20 round Mecgar mags for it.
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Old 09-06-2005, 02:03 PM   #20
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Mossberg used to make the .410 defense gun that had the "spreader" choke. I dunno if that was already said, or not. Its the way I'd go. The sound of a shotgun action cycling will likely not scare people off like some would have you believe. I'd go w/ a pump action .410. Easy to use, and reliable. Failing that, a 20 gauge. Still fairly mild recoil, and the availability for more powerful ammo.

Don't kid yourself, either. If you touch off anything in a house, its going thru the wall. Unless its a BB gun, there will be a hole in the wall. It has to. If its going to flatten a bad guy, it has to be powerful enough to penetrate a wall.

Optics? Not even needed. If you go complicating the situation by adding a night scope with a range finder, and tactical flashlight you've made an already chaotic situation worse. I know if I was engaged in a shoot-out with a bad guy in my home, I'm reaching for my 590 mossberg, and some low recoil buck. Why? Because its an easy system to opperate. While you're fiddling with bells, and whistles that you deemed necessary, the bad guy is firing away w/ his $100 .38 special that isn't tricked out with the latest in night vision night sight technology. Low tech is the way to go. Remember this, as its one of the USMC rules of gunfighting; 10 yrs from now, no one is going to remember the kind of gun involved. Just who lived, and who died. Or something like that. I'd go w/ a mossberg shotgun because they're the AK47 of the shotgun world. You can take a dump in the action, and it'll still function. Remember, you want a simple system. Not some overly elaborate complex mall ninja hollywood tough guy gun that will only get the user killed.
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