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Old 05-16-2006, 10:56 AM   #61
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#6, you wrote the orders then!

506, it's an interesting thing, comparing it to a CAR (I say CAR instead of M16, 'cause the CAR is what I've been using for the last several years).

In terms of weight, the CAR wins, and not by a small bit. Like a pound plus. I'm estimating that with the sling, LaRue CCO mount and Aimpoint (or EOTech), and a full steel mag, we're at 9 pounds with the XCR. Just happened to talk with Alex today, he said that the reason for this is because the upper is the same for the 308 version, and they wanted it beefy. He said that for the 5.56 version, it COULD be thinned out, and very well might be in the future, but it would be a matter of further machining. How beefy is it? Well, he said that they intentionally blew one up, as in ruptured casing and the whole thing. Didn't deform the receiver at all, it could be cleared and fired again no problem. THAT is beefy! I will say this: if they decide to offer a lightweight upper, I'll buy RIGHT THEN. The weight issue is probably the #1 "problem" I've got with it so far. Literally. For me, that's saying quite a bit.

I'm of the belief that a carbine should be light, so in the aspect of weight, that goes to the CAR, at least for now. Well, at least my CAR, 'cause it's got one of the THIN barrels. Comparing against something like an M4, there's not as much difference, my calibrated elbow says less than a pound. Also, the AR has (to me) a better "feel". I'm thinking though that this is because of two things:
1. I'm VERY, VERY used to shooting an AR. I don't have enough rounds down the tube of the XCR yet to say that I'm feeling "normal" with it, and no carry time (just range time). This is probably just me, and I have little doubt that'll change. Half the time I'm still slapping the left side of the receiver to release the bolt, and then thinking "DUH" when I don't hear the SHINK! Now, having said that, I do NOT feel that the bolt release on the XCR isn't well thought out! I like it, I like it's placement, and I like the crispness of how it works. I've just got a couple of decades of ingrained AR usage under my belt...... And speaking of mag change, one of the things I really DO like about the AR is the fact that it "talks to me". You can hear when the bolt locks back and such. Same thing on the XCR, it's audible, probably for the same reason..... Sound coming up from the cheek weld.
2. I don't like the fact that the 1/4" bolt on the front (the one that holds the barrel in for the quick detachment feature) comes down. If you use the front of the magwell (I didn't say mag) to hold the stick (which I do), the head of that bolt is uncomfortable on the index finger. Of course, I brought that up (GRIN). Alex says there's an optional bolt that fits flush, no problem. If you're one of the guys that likes the vertical fore-end grips, then this won't matter at all to you. And if you THINK you'd like that grip, but don't know, buy the one I tried and didn't like (from G.Reed Knight), I'll sell LOL! There's NO way you could talk me into just putting a bolt in and cutting the head off though. I don't have a second barrel to quick-change with, but the ability to yank the barrel off for cleaning is GREAT in my opinion. Everyone knows how difficult it is to clean all the little nooks and crannies in the barrel extension of an AR, but how easy would it be if it weren't at the end of the receiver (GRIN)? Seriously, when I bought it, I thought the QD barrel change capability was something I'd never need. As it turns out, the capability, when only used for cleaning, is GREAT.

But on the weight, a bunch of the difference between the XCR and the CAR comes from the rails. I like the rails, and I like the fact that there isn't a junction / hump on them like you get with the CAR and rail handguards. As I've mentioned before, the Falcon / Ergo / Magpul full sized rail covers are worth what they ask, and then some. I've had some dealings again lately with Falcon, and on a scale of one to four, I'd give those guys a five with no reservations. Speaking of which, the Falcon Issy grip has officially won my heart LOL! I'm retrofitting it onto everything it'll fit, a little at a time. I've been running that grip on my Kalashnikovs for years, but didn't know they made one for the AR series. Now I do, and it feels like a natural on the XCR. Of course, that's just my opinion, your hands may say something different to you, but I doubt it HA!

Reliability? That's where the XCR comes into it's own. While I was on the horn with Alex, I mentioned having to bump the gas up to 3. His statement was that I probably should have been running at 3 the whole time. That mistake in the owners manual.....

He said that Winchester white-box (what I've run since I cleaned it) should be at 3. Wolf should be at 4 (not authorized ammo), and the Federal American Eagle, being the hottest ammo they've found yet, can probably be run at 2. OK, I'm game. He said with it on 3, if I don't clean it, it really shouldn't give me any problems for another 5000 rounds or so. That being the case, I can see this as a carbine where the statement could be made: "use normal ammo -not weak like Wolf, not hot like Federal- and set it on 3 and forget it". I can honestly say that I've never owned an AR that would do that kind of throughput without lubing. Heck, I can say that all of my previous AR types (not the current one) have given up before the current round count I've got on the XCR. And I'm not even going to get into cleaning....

The real torture tests are going to come later though. It appears this stick has just about earned it's place in my gear bag for this summer (no small feat, as it'd be taking the place of the CAR, and being backed up with a Kalashnikov) with all the running and gunning. If it doesn't get broken before the year is out (which at this point I can't see that it would break), it'll get the cold-weather test this winter. Snow and ice, -20 to -40, and lots of fun.

One other topic might interest you guys, maybe not. I'm not known for being the tallest in my class (shut up Moe), I'm 'national average' in height. The stock, I've determined, is a touch too long for me. Like by an inch. So what can we do about shortening the stock? Easy, they'll just take care of me, when they build the next batch of stocks here very soon. I'm glad I didn't try to drift out the rollpin and trim it myself, eventhough the stock tubes are rollpinned tightly, they're also epoxied in there. A real belt and suspenders way of doing things. A while back, someone here was talking about how Robinson was bad on after the sale customer service, but that's not what I'm experiencing, not at all. My guess is that I'll wind up with two, one an inch shorter and one two inches shorter, summer and winter. IMO, worth the extra expense. For a comparison, the A2 stock is too long for me, and the A1 stock is marginally too long. The Sully stock is perfect, and the entry stock is a touch too short.

If you're a "nose on the charging handle" kind of AR shooter (I'm not, but close), and right handed, then the sling mount will work for you the same way. For those who don't want to deal with it (and don't mind the feel of the collapsable M4 type stocks), there is an adaptor to change the stock to that type. Personally, I don't like 'em, but it's out there if you want it. What isn't out there (and I WOULD like to see it) is a fixed synthetic stock. The folding stock though really isn't bad.

I guess I'm withholding final statement at this time, but all aspects look like they're either top flight, in the works of improvement, or at least have the possibility of being offered. Good luck getting that kind of flexibility elsewhere
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Old 05-16-2006, 10:02 PM   #62
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[s]During[/s] After work today, I hit 1000 rounds even since cleaning / lubing.

With the gas regulator set on 3, no problems whatsoever. Looks like Alex was right (imagine that LOL!).

This weekend has another 390 rounds, ready to go. Unless there's another pretty day, and I use 'em [s]at[/s] after work before that.
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Old 06-27-2006, 09:13 PM   #63
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Well, it appears the test is over. I'm cleaning this puppy up, and calling it a day.

Today marked 1700 rounds through this thing since I cleaned or lubed it, and the 400 today went without a single hitch.

There was a delay in there, as I determined that the 4 MOA dot of the Aimpoint M2 was a bit bigger than I prefer. The EoTech, while good, didn't quite do it for me.

I got an Aimpoint M3 on there now (took a bit to get it in and mounted), with the 2 MOA dot, and it has been good to go since installation. Well, since zeroing Shooting season has also been interupted by allergy season...... but in the last 2 months, I've put 2 cases through it.

With the 2 MOA dot, it's faster (IMO) than the EoTech, but more accurate than the Aimpoint M2. With the LaRue CCO mount, the dot sits closer to the top rail as well, which I prefer. Hitting at 300 and 400 is QED, something I couldn't say about the M2. While I haven't remembered to bring a timer with me (gotta forget something every time, eh? That's why my ear plugs are attached to my vest LOL!) I believe that the 2 MOA dot is faster for me than the EoTech dot. That could be the ergonomics of the situation though, as noted below.

Here's some odd things that I learned:

1. Check that the gas regulator nut is tightened down. Like every time it's cleaned, or every 400 rounds, which ever comes first. I didn't have any problems with it today, but last week I did. It should be checked!

2. What I said about the gas regulator nut also applies to the barrel QD stud. I have rattled it loose as well. Today was the first time I found a loose QD stud.

2A. If you like to use the front of the magwell as a grip, request the flush-fit QD stud.

3. Winchester white-box ammo appears to have a light load in it every now and again. For example, today I ran 400 rounds. My firing position was at the tailgate of my pickup. 399 casings landed close to the front tire (ejection threw them essentially the length of the truck, front tire to in front of the front bumper), with 1 ejecting about 3 feet from my feet. While I've never noticed that with other sticks (the AK is a lawn sprinker, the rest of my 223 sticks have plunger type ejectors) I believe that an underpressure round will be noticed more by this ejection system. Still not bad though.

4. The rail covers by Falcon do really well at insulating my hand from hot barrels. I'm sure the Magpul version does just as well, since they're same-same.

5. Gas port settings! #1 is for suppressed fire. Not recommended for much else, period. #2 is good for hot ammo. I've been told that the Federal brand works well on that setting. #3 works well for Winchester white-box, and any other regular power ammo. Once it's working well, carbon doesn't seem to play a part. Alex said that it shouldn't for at least 6000 rounds. I believe him (see later statement). #4, I've been informed, is good for Wolf. Personally, I think it'd be a touch too bumpy for use with regular ammo. Even on #3, it's "energetic" with regular ammo.

6. I ripped this thing apart tonight to give it a good cleaning. I'm not sure if I'm more impressed with the Winchester ammo or the XCR design. While there were brass shavings in the lower (typical), and residue in the top, I was really surprised with how little carbon there was in the system. The bolt essentially needed wiping down (de minimus), and the lower hosing out (I prefer Sheath, ne Baracade). The most carboned up parts were the gas tube (to be expected), as well as the gas piston. A few good strokes with a 12 gauge phosphor bronze brush took care of the gas tube. This was QED, since it comes out EASY. Similar to a Kalashnikov, except it's perfectly circular inside. The gas piston took a touch less effort. I'll admit to getting lazy, and not doing the regulator tonight though..... I'm tired.

7. The adjustment on the folding stock, that allows the slack to be taken up, is GREAT. After a while, the wiggle would get annoying. A quarter-turn on that adjustment, and it's rock solid again. QED.

8. This could just be how I'm built (YMMV), but when I use a telestocked mousegun, I have to lift my head a bit more to get on the sights. I always blamed it on the lousy cheek weld the telestock afforded. In this regard, the XCR is similar. To compensate, I used the LaRue CCO mount, which actually sits lower than the standard 1.410" sights. Lower than the EoTech on the rail. With that situation, the stock doesn't bother me at all, 'cause I'm on the sights anyway without lifting my head. Downside: NOBODY, BUT NOBODY makes BUIS in anything other than the standard 1.410" height. Go figure.

9. For some reason, the pistol grip wants to come untightened as well. It takes a long time, but it wants to loosen. I tried a bit of teflon tape on the threads. Coming up will be green loctite.

10. The location of the rear sling attachment point makes buying a 3 point sling difficult. At least one that works. My solution? I'm making my own. For attaching to the front end, I bought a Midwest Industries loop that mimics the HK style. I believe that an adaptor on the butt would be smart, especially for folks like me that have no intention of ever folding the stock. It would allow a standard 2 point sling to be used. Something coming off the front of the buttplate would also work for an M1 carbine / HK type rear attachment. But that's just me.........

From here, the lower goes back to Robinson. I've been informed that the first 10 leaving the shop had a different spring (IIRC hammer spring) than what was found to be the best, and the disconnector has been updated as well. They sent me a nice prepaid deal to return it. I've been informed that for my effort, they're going to drop in a really nice, honed fire control group. How can a guy argue with that?! I should mention that the fire control group that I've been using has given me a grand total of ZERO problems, no matter how I fired it (slow, rapid, moving, etc).

I mentioned that I thought the stock was a touch long, although that's probably me more than anything. On a mousegun, I prefer the shorter stock (Sully actually, longer than the Entry stock, shorter than the A1 stock) so that ought to give you a point of reference. What's the solution? Eh! No sweat. They've built me a stock 1" shorter, and will swap it out while the lower is there at no charge. I'll purchase a second stock 2" shorter, to swap out for winter use as well. They seem to be taking care of me VERY well.

I will be experimenting with other brands of ammo though, to find something better, if there is such a thing.

I'll see how this puppy works at Gunsite. Afterwords, I'm thinking sand test. Later this year, or early next year, arctic conditions test.

When I get the shorter stock back, hopefully by next week, I'll put pics up if anyone is interested. As for now, goodnight!
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Old 06-29-2006, 11:39 AM   #64
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Keep, up the good posts, I'm still waiting for the .308 one though.

Thanks for performing the tests.
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Old 06-29-2006, 06:55 PM   #65
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Bravo: You know how I feel about you so don't take this to heart. While it's nice to buy new toys and try them out(it's even nicer when someone like you does it for us and we get to learn from your mistakes and use your money! )


1) It sounds like what they should've done to the AR-15 40 years ago but didn't. It still uses the cheap AR mags though which was one of it's major failings besides it crummy gas system. HK has solved both with its new rifle(416) and its new steel mags that are just like FNC mags!


2)I know it's nice to buy new toys,especially USA built ones,but.......There's many hints and references made by you that it's almost like a GALIL or an HK with some of its parts. There's nothing new that hasn't already been done that makes it better than an HK or a GALIL. Both have been more than battle tested and work quite well without any mods.....especially the GALIL. Mags maybe a little more expensive than AR mags but how many do you need after 30/gun?


3)I really like reading any post you write ....especially when you're spending your hard earned bachelor dollars on goodies we all wish we had. But.....a SIG 550 or a VALMET 76 are just as good and more robust to boot.



4)You still sound like your M-14 is your one true sweet heart. I can hear it in your words. It has great sights,a good gas system,good mags, and is easy to service by a lone trooper with some smarts.(key word) I know it will never be your CQB weapon of choice....but no 308 battle rifle will be without seriously affecting its utility.



5)As someone said to....RA is still too new to the game as far as service and longevity. Why it's great that guys like you are willing with more than their mouths and are great for new fledgling companies just starting out......remember Murphy's law as it relates to your weapon. Especially from a survivalist stand point.


6) It's good that you're really giving it the once over though and I wish you well in your tests of this new rifle,but unless Uncle Sugar Daddy is going to adopt it....you and I both know it's dead in the water. The FN SCAR system seems more likely as it can be either or. Plus it already has the M-16 contract,the M240 contract,the M-249 contract,and the M-2 contract......so which one do you think is going to get it? RA ?or FN who has more money to grease our slimey politicians" hands in DC? If you said FN ,then you know the real deal in DC even if the RA is better in all the tests. Ask the boys at SIG how they got greased in the M-9 tests by Beretta who was based in Italy along with our new Pershing II misslie batteries!!



7) Like I said, I have a great deal of respect for you and absolutely love the fact(and am jealous too!!!!) that you're free ,single ,and over 21 and are able to spend enormous amounts of your own money and time(bachelorhood is so great isn't it?) to do this great service for us wannabes out here in computerland. So stay safe and watch yer six pard and keep on buying and testing all these new toys they keep comin' up with!! As for me....I'll stick with my tried and true M-14 and Galil/Valmet because they ain't made nuthin' yet that 'll outdo em!! (although a Kreb's AK without the silly AR telescoping stock is fast becoming a great choice!)
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Old 06-30-2006, 11:01 AM   #66
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Howdy there my friend! Some great points, Iíll take Ďem in order... Hope you donít mind my rambling, and youíre doing well LOL!

1. Cheap AR mags? Nah. Those are expensive, flimsy, disposable mags! HA! OK, seriously, your buddy Brav has your back on this one. I ordered a stack of these Singapore SA-80 mags from R-Guns (I know them from the Krebs stuff). I got Ďem in, and they looked really, really nice, all parkerized steel, brand new. Some took a touch with a file on the mag catch hole, as they fit a touch too tight (not allowing the mag release to eject easy). Iím convinced it was the thickness of the Parkerizing, nothing more, and they would have been fine if Iíd just ďbroke Ďem inĒ. As it was, I hit the top edge with a file (VERY, VERY, VERY little Ė like not removing metal little), and theyíve all been GREAT. They come with a follower in there that is of the current USGI anti-tilt type, but is grey instead of green. Dimensionally, I could tell NO difference in the followers from USGI. I tried installing the Magpul anti-tilt followers in them (Iím a big believer in that follower for USGI mags) but it wouldnít go in several of them. It seems the tabs that hold the base plate on in the front were relocated slightly on the SA-80 mags, just BARELY enough to mess with the Magpul followers. On some I could get the Magpul follower in, but it didnít move as freely as I figured it should. My guess is that I could have hit the back part of the base plate tabs with a file just enough to get the magpul followers in, but chose not to even try, and evaluate them as they came. My guess is that the reason the Magpul followers didnít slide easily was because the steel is significantly thicker than the aluminum. What?! Thicker walls made out of a more durable metal?! What the heck was I thinking in buying these! HA! R-Guns lists these at $10 each, or $8 per for 10 or more. They also had a flat shipping rate, $10 or $20 IIRC. Iíve never had a mag related malf with these, and Iíve performed over and above my normal mag classifier with them (fill and fire each one without a bobble three times). IMO, a ďbest dealĒ for $500. The only downsides Iíve found are that they wonít take that follower, and they will require lube / preservative. Not that Iíve seen any rust, and the Parkerizing holds well enough, but you know... On the HK416 mags, yeah, theyíre nice. But I donít think theyíre $40 to $50 nice. I like the chromed followers, but not enough to buy Ďem at that price. Now for the fun part: comparing the steel SA-80 mags to the HK416 mags, what are the differences? Well, the SA-80 is parkerized where the 416 appears to be a Teflon coating or some such. Difference: I donít care, theyíll both require lube / preservative Ďcause Teflon wears off just like parkerizing. And the follower, chromed metal versus plastic. Difference: I really donít care. Although my HK91 mags have been great, the chrome does come off eventually. Springs? I donít know, but I can buy a stack of Wolff replacement mag springs for the $32 difference in price! Iíll let you know when the stock springs wear out, they appear to be stainless. If youíre really stuck on the HK416 mags though, Iíd recommend hanging out a while. Iíve got a couple of good contacts at PRi, theyíre working on just these. Steel mags, metal followers, and silicon chrome springs. From my other experiences with these guys, Iím betting theyíll be top flight, less expensive than the HK, and equal in quality. But really, if it were me (or, rather, when it was me LOL!) I went with the SA-80.

2. Yeah, there are similarities in the operating system to a Galil. Iíve got to say though, the bolt (especially the stem) appears much more robust than anything Iíve seen in the AK family. The extractor / ejector arrangement is almost identical. Iím also a BIG believer in the FAL type charging handle it uses as well, they copied the very best Ė the Israeli, with the forward assist. But hereís where I see things a bit differently, when comparing the XCR with the Galil or HK. Both of those require working the bolt somehow, and have no provision for a bolt hold-open. Well, the HK can hold the bolt back, but doesnít at the end of a mag, you know what I mean. With the AK system (and the HK for that matter), itís best to rack the charging handle / oprod when changing a magazine, just Ďcause you donít know if youíve got an empty chamber or not. The XCR has that bolt hold-open, and the stick talks to you. Itís easy to tell, audibly and tactilely, the last round has been fired and ďyouíse out!Ē. I havenít made any comment about the capability of rapid reloading, as IMO, the AR and AK can be reloaded equally as rapidly. The difference is that with the AK, charging it after the reload is ďhighly recommendedĒ. Additionally, the XCR has a leg-up on the Galil in the weight department. I really like the Galil, but itís a pig! While the XCR should go on a diet, the Galil just goes around saying ďhey hey hey!Ē. On the XCR to HK93 comparison, Iíll say that the safety of the XCR is better located for us that donít have orangutan length thumbs. As well, the charging handle is MUCH better. Thatís not going to stop me from picking up one of these Vector HK53ís though A major downside to the HK93 / 53 though is mag availability. And when you can get Ďem, those HK416 mags look downright reasonable!

3. Thanks for the compliment! On the SIG 550, I have to say that I was really geared up to like that thing. And I may give it a better shakedown when they finally become available later this year, just out of curiosity. But the one I played with at SHOT was heavy. Like Galil heavy. There was some question whether it would be steel on steel or steel on aluminum in the final outcome. The literature says both, depending on when you got it. If it isnít a pig, then it has a very good shot at being a winner. Personally, Iíd like to see a FNC duplicate on the American market... But the Valmet? Good luck finding one. Additionally, I spoke with Marc Krebs about the Galil and Valmet. He said that both suffer from the same problems that the machined receiver AK47 did, in that you get cracks around the gas tube in the receiver, and the receivers wear out significantly faster. The cheesier stampings last longer, and are actually more durable. Thatís why the Rooskies went back to them. Of course, problems with the receivers are more common in select-fire models, but IIRC, he said the machined receivers were good for 40,000 rounds before inspection / rebuild.

4. AMEN! I canít see keeping house without a good í14. If I lost everything, that would be the FIRST stick Iíd replace. This summer Iím going to use the XCR, but Iíll have my E.G. Kalashnikov as a back up, always nearby. Not that I figure Iíll have any problems with the XCR, but itís still somewhat of an unknown to me. With the kind of bucks Iíve put into this summer, no chances will be taken. What do I take as a back up to the í14 when it gets used for one of these outings? I donít. Havenít before, and feel no need to in the future. Sure, in the ruck Iíll have spare bolt and trigger assemblies, but just Ďcause theyíre light and small. Iíve never ďemergency replacedĒ anything on my Ď14ís. And while I donít want to start a flame war, you know how to tell when youíve either got to hit a FAL with more lube or turn the regulator up a notch? A malf. The í14 doesnít do that to me. Itís more finicky on ammo, but Iím easily willing to pay that price. And the experiment here is whether I really need a 5.56 at all. Weíve all read, heard, and been inundated with statements about how good of a weapon the 5.56 makes for CQB. My goal for this year is to objectively test that platform, and then determine if thereís anything I did that couldnít be done with a rifle about as well. Is that a silly thought? Could be, but I should KNOW in another couple of months! I did the same thing with an Uzi. When I got done with the course, I figured out that I have no reason to own a SMG, as I wonít ever choose it over something else. Maybe, possibly, this summer will show me the same thing with the 223, and from here on out, Iíll be only using 7.62 in gasguns LOL!

5. I guess Iíve got a little different thought on firearms in that context. The way I look at it, in ďbad timesĒ, a warranty is worthless. Even if itís honored, who cares? If the stick doesnít run, itís worthless. Thatís one of the reasons Iím so big on the í14. Howís this for an example: one of my Ď14ís got used enough to wear out the barrel (non-chromed). It was a later-model all cast / commercial part Sproingfeld, from the Ď90ís. During the time it had the original barrel on there, no malfs, no breakages. THAT is dependability! If I can break a stick, I donít need it. Iíll make some rare exceptions to that statement (like that WEIRD / fluke hammer pin breakage on the 870), but if something is breakage / malf prone, then the design is lacking. But everything will break eventually, as weíre talking about machines and steel parts. For that eventuality, I believe in keeping a second (third and fourth) nice one set aside LOL! Oh, and only two of Ďem in one place.

6. On this stick and the SCAR evals, I got some insider info on that, and itís been verified. The reason the XCR was DQíd from those evals is because of a blank firing adaptor. No joke. The original shipment of sticks was sent with all the required goodies, but they forgot to put the BFAs in there. When the mistake was noticed, they got the BFAs there ASAP. Since it uses a USGI flash suppressor, the USGI BFA works as well. But that wasnít easy enough for the evaluators, they said ďincomplete package, disqualifiedĒ. Uh, yeah. As I understand it though, this isnít a done deal. I agree with your standpoint to a degree, if RA gets the contract, Iím sure itíll be a matter of either fronting enough dough to build them up a larger capacity, or buying the design and handing it to FN / Colt. And the politicians are slimy. But that doesnít really equate anything to me. The goobermint says that the M4 is the finest. Theyíre cheap and plentiful. I donít choose that one. If they say something else is now the best (and I donít agree again), that thing becomes cheap and plentiful; Iíll still be the ďoutsiderĒ and use something I believe in more.

7. Again, thanks for the compliment! The hardest thing is juggling being a 100% father with what I want to do. My boy still doesnít care much for the 223s, as heís more used to the popgun recoil and blast of his 22 LOL. Luckily, Iíve got a job where itís not that big of a thing at all to take an Ďextended lunchí, and drive 10 minutes to my range. On the AK / Galil / Valmet, I can certainly agree. I watched a guy in New Mexico take the top cover off of a cheesy garage built AK (panhead screws instead of rivets, the whole nine yards) and dump handfuls of sand in there. Replace the top cover, and dump a mag without a hitch. Repeated with more and more sand. He did finally get it to malf though, when he filled the entire receiver. The malfs werenít bad, but after he shook it for a second it went right back to 100% for the rest of the mag. The thing with the Galil / Valmet is that weíre getting into the area where weight plays a part. For instance, we chop the barrels down on shotguns for size. Iím convinced that nobody would add weight to a shotgun though, as it messes with the dynamics of how it can be used. The Galil and Valmet are about the same weight as a í14, and moving that mass around I believe couldnít be as fast as moving something with lower mass. Simple physics. Thatís why Iíve spoken to Alex about coming out with a lightweight upper. For a 223, I want something in the 6-pound or slightly less range.
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Old 07-04-2006, 03:26 PM   #67
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Thanks again for all the great info Bravo! Neither gun companies nor gun rags are as clear and concise as you are. And I'm sure they aren't nearly as hard on their guns as you either.

I feel the same as you and have tested all of the so called battle/assault rifles out there ad nauseum(except the newer ones like you're doing) and have finally settled on the ones I have now.It's funny though how things usually come full circle after all your tests isn't it? Same goes for pistols(although all the new plastic guns coming out for the US pistol trials look promising....especially since they'll be in 45acp!!) It's a good thing that spent surplus brass is going for $1.50/lb here in NY or I'd be broke.

I sure hope this XCR works out.....RA should be paying you for this free advertising and ground work you've done for them. I certainly have proven many gun writers wrong in my own evluations of certain firearms over the years....it's a good thing I found out then instead of later on in a gunfight too!! Makes you wonder what guns these guys test or what they get payed not to say doesn't it?(don't want to upset the advertisers now do we.....but to hell with the end users....let those saps(US) find out for themselves!!)


So far the Galil without bipod(albeit heavy but almost totally soldier proof!!),the Valmet(76P), FNC,HK 93 have made the cut in 223 and the M-1A,M-1 Garand,Galil, HK 91(with better sights) and the FAL (with better sights, sand cuts in the carrier, and the standard charging handle too) in 308 With an honorable mention to the MAS 49/56 in 308. Built like a tank and even has decent sights ,but has the same dirty rotten gas system of the AR-15!! But it and only a few of the others can survive the boot test!!!!
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Old 07-05-2006, 12:02 PM   #68
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Howdy Dudeski!

OK, you hit on something that Iíd like to ask about (GRIN). You said that youíd tested a bunch of sticks as well, and Iím wondering if youíve had experiences with some that donít overlap with what Iíve done. Maybe you can cross some off my ďto buyĒ list!

The three Iím thinking of right off the top of my head are the ArmaLite AR180B, the HK SL8-1, a the Vector 53L (copy of the HK53, but with a 16Ē barrel, so no SBR stamp required Ė should be significantly lighter than a HK93).

Yeah, things go full circle. My first battle rifle was the M14. My father was in the generation that had his Garand taken, and the ďnew fangled M14Ē handed out. It did him really well, so I started there. Later, after hearing all about the FAL and HK91, I got some of them to try. They went away, and the í14 remained

On the plastic pistols in 45 ACP, Iím still waiting on my Sproingfeld XD. I put in the back-order in February, Ďcause at SHOT, I made the statement that I needed one of the 5Ē models. Well, it turns out that RSR has done me right again... by sending all of the ones they got to Sportsmanís Warehouse and Ace Hardware, instead of to my guy. Lovely.

Also, where do you find the better sights for the HK91? There were two things that made me disqualify that stick in the first iteration (a Sproingfeld Greek import). First was the thump. Iíve come to find out thereís a significant difference in buffer assemblies! The second was the sights... Iím not happy with topping out at 400 meters with a battle rifle.

And youíll be interested in this! You mentioning the FNC made me think, as Iíve never owned one. Thought Iíd pull up an exploded parts diagram on the internet, just to make sure I wasnít mistaken on some things...

Basically, Iíll amend my statements about what the XCR is most like. Itís most like a FNC.

The barrel assembly looks VERY close, including the block threading on the chamber end of the barrel, to cam the bolt. Same gas block and tube. Ejector looks VERY similar. Bolt and carrier assemblies are extremely similar, with two exceptions: instead of the carrier handle coming out the right side, the XCR has a FAL type charging handle on the left, and the gas piston is keyed into the body of the carrier, instead of being all one piece. But the bolt looks identical. Stock assembly? Except for the fact that the XCR doesnít have the block between the bars, it looks identical. The lower is VERY close, although the hammer uses a spring a-la the M16 / AK instead of the FAL / M14 / FNC. Interestingly enough, the XCR lower looks more refined. Less parts, and with a bolt hold-open. So Iíll call it an American built / slightly improved FNC. The only significant difference I can see is the formed metal upper of the FNC versus the machined upper of the XCR. Might be some differences there due to tolerances, I donít know.
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Old 07-05-2006, 01:01 PM   #69
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The HK SL8 and Vector 53 I have no experience with.Although I'd like to try a Vector 93! But only with 25 round mags....not those stupid gunstore commando 40 rounders! Try going prone with one!!

The AR-180B is a waste of time and money. I had 6 of them and none of them worked right.(I always buy things in big lots to make sure!! If only one works...you know they suck.) Armalite really made them cheap. The gas system is held on by 2 allen screws and the front sights are offset.When I called the company they said their was nothing wrong(typical after buyer phrase after they got your money and spent it!) I was like you and I waited and waited for these to come out and they weren't worth the wait. Which is why I'm very skeptical about anything new.....we as consumers have to find the bugs and not the gov't or the company.


The HK 21 1200 meter sight is the nuts for the 91 and is easy to adjust too(no tool....just a dial). It costs a little money but it is worth it.



The FNC and the SCAR are identical also except for all the rail hook up junk. The FNC is a great piece if you use the original FNC mags. Using cheap AR mags lowers its reliability....(which makes one wonder why every manufacturer is making their rifles accept them!!) I'd rather use the FN mags(or HK 416's) in any piece that took standard AR mags. The FNC doesn't accept all AR mags either. You have to try different ones out to see(The Bushmaster AR doesn't either!) I ran many thousands of rounds through my FNC's and only had the stupid grenade launcher break off during shooting. On one rifle it was OK....but on another it locked up the gas system......It shuts off the gas system when you flip it up to use it). It has no ability to mount other goodies....only it's own scope mount if you can find one. Plus if you lose the charging handle during disassembly.....forget about ever shooting it again. Trying to get parts for them was worse than panning for gold!(Or a hot summer in TX with no water!!) The folding stock models worked great(same as the GALIL) and the fixed stock ones feel good too. Definitely more reliable than any AR series. (What isn't?).



I just bought 2 Black (I'd rather have OD....but beggars can't be choosey !!) 4" XD's in 45acp(what else?). I 'll give you the skinny when my ammo supply is replenished.(I never dig into my stash so I'm not stuck with no ammo if the SHTF!) I'd like a 5" model too and have one in the works. I definitely like them for summer time fanny pack carry or chest holster carry over a Glock or 1911. The grip safety gives you a little more assurance when the muzzle is pointed towards my valuable parts!!!


Stay safe Pard and watch yer six!
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Old 07-17-2006, 01:10 PM   #70
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OK, I guess Iíll have to recant on something I mentioned.

The Singapore SAR-80 mags that Iíve been using have hit a snag. These are the all-steel parkerized mags, with current style USGI follower (except itís grey instead of green).

Iíve used these in my ďAmericanized FNCĒ Ė the Robinson XCR, with no problems whatsoever. I feel good enough about these mags to order a stack of them, so that ought to tell you something in itself.

Today, for a change of pace, I took the CAR out. Since those mags were loaded, they got taken along for use.

With the XCR, all 13 inserted and ejected perfectly. With the CAR, all inserted perfectly, but 2 would not eject. That is, the mag required manual removal on those two only. This I could rack up to ďhit and missĒ, and 11 out of 13 isnít bad odds for $8 per.

On the XCR, all 13 hold the bolt open nicely when empty. On the CAR, none would hold the bolt back when empty. This I found quite bothersome, and a ďdeal breakerĒ.

However, on the XCR all feed perfectly and are malf-free, the same applying to the CAR.

As well, it was my opinion that they took a touch more force to insert perfectly in the CAR than they should, certainly a bit more than required with the XCR.

This having been said, I do not believe that this is a problem with the magazines specifically. I believe itís an incompatibility issue between my CAR and those mags. I still believe that these mags ought to be investigated by anyone serious on the matter, just purchase a small quantity (like I did, with these 13) and evaluate them for compatibility issues with your stick before purchasing more.

As for my CAR, I suppose my answer would be that Iíd only feed it from my old trusty Parsons mags, complete with MagPul followers. Itís a bother that I canít keep just one mag type around, but nothing really nasty.

FWIW, and as always, YMMV.
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Old 07-17-2006, 01:37 PM   #71
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Glad you brought this up Bravo. Many people have misconceptions about universal magazine interchangeablity until reality stares them in the face! People always try and skimp on mags too........they go and buy an expensive rifle ,but can't afford its magazines so they try to buy cheapos to get buy.(Maybe they should've bought a less expensive rifle so they afford the mags and lots of ammo to practice with??? ) Buy only the mags that go with gun and try each one out as you have is the only way to go.


I bought a Galil years ago and mags weren't too plentiful then....so we all tried Valmet mags,or Chinese Norinco 223 mags as a stopgap.......Well guess what? None of them worked worth a damn! Same goes for FAL mags......many bought inch mags and converted them before all the std. mags came in. They never worked even after having them worked over and over by smiths! Then there's all those cheap imitation or GI "types" that these crooks try to sell people today. None of them work at all and there should be a website dedicated just to running these people out of business for lying so much!(It may cost someone their life using them! ).HK 93 mags were hard to get.....so we went with those 40 rd. imitation ones that sucked......they all fell apart and if they did work....you couldn't use them in the prone(safest)position anyways.....which makes them worse than useless!

So be careful out there and only trust your mags after they've thoroughly tested!
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Old 07-18-2006, 08:50 AM   #72
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I once was wrong. I thought I was wrong, but instead was correct

I need to recant my recanting! Yesterday I posted that my CAR had problems with the SAR-80 mags. Well, that was not exactly correct. What I had a problem with was myself.

Hereís the deal: I was running one of those one-point sling attachment points on my CAR, but then decided it put too much wiggle in the stock (and I didnít like the one point sling anyway, it bounces the carbine off my thighs!) so I took it off.

You know what happens when you take a long stock bolt out, remove a spacer (the sling attachment point) and then put the same bolt back in? Yeah, it intrudes too far into where the buffer rides. The short bolt is the part called for, but did I do that? NOPE!

End result: my buffer wouldnít go all the way back because it didnít have room, which wouldnít allow the carrier to go back far enough for the bolt catch to ride up in front of the bolt. MY MISTAKE.

So I set that right last night (when I figured out my old trusty Parsons mags wouldnít hold back the bolt either, I KNEW something was wrong) and lo and behold! The SAR-80 mags now hold the bolt back too. Imagine.

As well, I said they took more than normal effort to lock the mag in. Yeah. Thatís because I was pushing down the head of the top round with the bolt head. DUH.

Moral of the story: donít do things without thinking. Itíll bite you in the hillary.

Take home message: the SAR-80 steel / parkerized mags are again the bargain deal. Just be aware that if you have a tight magwell, some (in my case 2 out of 13) might not drop free.
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Old 07-18-2006, 09:12 AM   #73
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Or.....you could stop using weapons that take those kinds of mags!!!(Only kidding).


And how dare you speak in a derogatory way about the next appointed Chinese governor of the US! Wait until I see her at dinner tomorrow night......your A$$ is toast mister! She might make Tx a province of Mexico.....or send you to a male punishment center in China or Siberia!!


I'd like to say it takes someone of real good character to admit their stupid mistakes publicly.....I'm glad to have made your aquaitance Bravo! (seriously......no really...I mean it!.....Come on.....stop chuckling!)
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Old 08-06-2006, 05:51 AM   #74
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So....how's things going on your test? Haven't heard from you in awhile.(I was getting kinda worried.....thought maybe you went off and got married!! )



1) From the pics on their site.....it looks like there's holes in the gas tube.....do these allow dirt and other crap to get into the system or are they just cooling holes for the handguard?

2) The charging handle looks a bit short too! The site says it has forward assist capabilities......HOW?


3) How easy and quickly is it to break apart compared to an AK or an AR?



4) How many different kinds of mags have you tried in it for fit and function?



5) What kind of sites come with it? M-16 or HK ? It doesn't say on their site. They look kind of high too. Can lower ones be purchased or mounted without ruining your sight picture or cheek weld?




6) Sling attachments don't look like they're too well placed. Especially if you're going to use your sling to shoot it!




7) Barrel looks too skinny for me. Does it heat up rapidly compared to say a std. wt. M-4?




What kind of flash hider does it have? The site has two types shown in its pics of the weapon.......the old AR-15 prong and the newer birdcage.




9) Is gas piston attached to bolt carrier ala AK-47 or separate like the FAL? Is the spring wrapped around it also like the FAL or is it like an AK?




10) Have you spoken to RA lately as the due dates on the next calibers avalible and what type of mags it will use for each caliber? (Especially the AK!!!).




11) I know this is bad question to ask someone to do to their expensive weapons........but have dropped it yet or put it through any sand or mud tests? I've done this to several weapons and not many made it past this stage(AR-15 series especially) I always drop test mine(from about 5 feet) with a primed case in in them to see if they will fire for my own safety reasons! If it fires, it goes off never-never-land, never to be seen again!




Sorry for all questions Bravo......but you've got my attention now and I'm somewhat interested. Although my Old Lady won't be if go and buy another piece to test which means lots of money out of the family budget! Which means she might divorce me and then I'll be like you.........Hmmmmmmmmmm Maybe that won't be so bad and then I could get on here test all kinds of new weapons too!
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Old 08-06-2006, 10:00 AM   #75
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Howdy Dudeski!
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYprolitariat
So....how's things going on your test?

Actually, they went pretty well. The run and gun finished with a week-long couse (223) at Gunsite. Since I didn't know the XCR would do it for a fact, I took along my old trusty CAR as a back-up. The CAR never got out of the case. The cert says "in the use of the Robinson XCR .223 / 5.56 NATO". I took 1400 rounds (they required 1200, I always take about 15% extra, 'cause I've found over the years I always need a few extra LOL!) and came home with about two mags worth.

At the beginning of the course, they issued us all three dayglow orange dummies, to be mixed in the mags randomly, to practice correct type 1 malf clearance. That was the vast majority of my malf experience with the XCR. The rest were essentially manufactured by locking the bolt back, inserting a mag in the magwell, and then throwing a loose round in through the ejection port, and hitting the bolt release. Makes a nice double-feed, a type 3 malf. Other than that, there was ONE time I made it malf on my own, by spanking the mag. User error. In other words, it was as reliable as it could get!

Did I spend a bunch of time cleaning it every evening? NOPE! Didn't stroke the bore once actually. On day 3, they taught us some odd boat crew prone, where essentially you're laying on the rifle, with the rifle pinned to the ground. As such, the ejection port is about 4" off the dirt. You can imagine what kind of crud was flying around at that point! HA! I did feel the need to change the oil that evening, but not for reliability so much as superstition looking forward to the man-on-man shoot off at the end. Towards the end of the course (and during the shoot off) one poor kid had to manually load each round with his AR.....

On the funny side, those orange dummies weigh MUCH less than a real round. When the XCR would go CLICK! instead of BANG, I'd do the proper push-pull, tilt and rack, and see that bright orange piece of plastic being shot out of the ejection port. Like a good 40 foot ejection LOL!
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYprolitariat
1) From the pics on their site.....it looks like there's holes in the gas tube.....do these allow dirt and other crap to get into the system or are they just cooling holes for the handguard?

There are holes in the handguard, I'm betting they're for cooling and weight reduction. There are also holes in the gas tube, a-la (some) FALs and AKs. The holes in the gas tube are pointed down though, so the only thing they can foul is the top of the barrel, or inside of the freefloating handguard. The barrel is far enough away that I don't get much carbon at all on it. The biggest "mess" they make is on the handguard rail covers. They look pretty black on the underside. Of course, if I didn't take them off, I wouldn't know that As far as allowing crap into the system, I don't see how that could be unless it was submerged in something, and the barrel channel filled up first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYprolitariat
2) The charging handle looks a bit short too! The site says it has forward assist capabilities......HOW?

Actually, I *LOVE* the charging handle. One of the best parts about this stick. While everyone was having to take the weapon down out of the shooting position to rack it, mine stayed on target while I ran the drills. Reaching slightly up (I use the front of the magwell as my support hand position), I'd pivot my hand at the wrist so that my palm was facing me (exactly the way you DO NOT do with an Uzi), and catch the oprod handle with my hand. Coming straight back, it's CAKE. The charging handle is essentially a copy of the Israeli FAL charging handle. If the bolt is not in battery, you bring the charging handle back to the point it's now contacting the bolt. Pushing in (pushing from left to right) shoves lugs into recesses in the bolt carrier. At that point (while you maintain side pressure on the handle) you have 100% control of the bolt. That having been said, I'm NOT a fan of forward assists. In my experience, they cause all kinds of problems, to the point that I nicknamed the forward assist on the AR the "armorer call button". The AK guys loved it when I said that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYprolitariat
3) How easy and quickly is it to break apart compared to an AK or an AR?

Essentially, take-down is identical to an AK, if you leave the barrel mounted. Push in the retainer button on the rear (a-la AK), and pivot the upper and lower apart (a-la AR). Grab the charging handle or recoil spring, and pull everything out the back (a-la AK). The biggest difference is that on an AK, the gas piston is part of the carrier. On the XCR, it's a two-piece affair. Also, like the AK, since the ejector is fixed, there's not much need to disassemble the bolt for cleaning. I haven't on mine yet. The lower can be cleaned like an AR. If required / wanted, the barrel retaining bolt can be loosened, the barrel (with extension) pulled out the front. It's EASY to get to everything that way. When you do this, the gas cylinder slides out the front. The only thing left to play with would be the regulator. Take off the retainer nut, and slide it out the gas block to the rear. QED.

NOTE! I've found out the hard way (before the course) that one should ALWAYS check the tension on the barrel retaining bolt and the regulator nut. Neither came loose on me this time, but I checked them daily.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYprolitariat
4) How many different kinds of mags have you tried in it for fit and function?

So far, only three. My old, old Colt 20 rounders, my standby Parsons Precision Products mags (with Magpul followers) and the Singapore steel mags. We're at 100% with all of them. Speaking of which, while I was there, they were testing some mags made in Ogden, Utah. The bodies were blackened stainless steel, they came with Magpul followers (which the Singapore mags won't take well), and were lengthened slightly so downloading mags for reliable insertion on a closed bolt wasn't necessary. From what I saw, they worked well, but I'm going to drop a line to one of the instructors this next week to find out the full story and get contact info. When discussing such things, the instructor opined that the HK 416 mags were the best.

On the Singapore mags, they WORK. I joked about my "lucky mags". What made 'em lucky, and how could I tell them from my not lucky mags? Simple: when I shook a mag, if it rattled, it was lucky, if it didn't, it was just a normal mag. What made them rattle? Gravel. Yup! So much in the dirt stuff, several of them got small pieces of gravel in the bodies. I never had a mag related malf, unless you consider feeding a dummy round mag related LOL!
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYprolitariat
5) What kind of sites come with it? M-16 or HK ? It doesn't say on their site. They look kind of high too. Can lower ones be purchased or mounted without ruining your sight picture or cheek weld?

Here's a down side. What kind come with it? Simple! None. In the same way that I can't get a good cheek weld on a tele stocked AR (at least not the same as a standard stocked AR), the XCR (in my opinion) requires a lower sight due to the thin stock. If you want iron sights, the only ones produced are for the AR series. Which means too high in my opinion. Mark LaRue makes an aimpoint mount that is lower, for folks that want to mount it on the hump of the handguard rails that come back over the upper of an AR. THAT is what I used, and it's IDEAL. He calls it the CCO mount. At this time, I have no BUIS on mine. This should be rectified, but I'm still looking for someone to build me some a bit lower.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYprolitariat
6) Sling attachments don't look like they're too well placed. Especially if you're going to use your sling to shoot it!

YUP! This is one of my legit gripes about this stick. If you want to buy one of those rail-mounted sling swivels, they're all over the place. Of course, you'll have nothing at the rear, unless you develop something new....... I bought one from Midwest Industries, that accepts the HK sling snaps, and mounted it on the left rail at the front. That was for a three-point sling. I ran the 3-point for one day, and then a one point from then on. For a CQB stick, I like the one points. For movement while hanging, they bounce more than the three point slings though..... In the 3 gun shoots, I went the opposite way, preferring the 3 point. I guess it's a matter of what you're doing.

But now to my gripes! Look at where the sling attachment at the rear of the receiver is. The charging handle comes back to the rear of that sling attachment point, so that the point is due north of the handle when it's all the way back. So what? Simple. When you're ON the stick, the attachment on that point hangs down some. And it effectively blocks the full travel of the oprod!

On the good side, you get enough travel to effectively do everything you want to / need to with only one exception: locking the bolt to the rear. I don't know how many times I went to lock the bolt open on an empty stick, only to fight with the sling attachment. This only manifests itself if you're in a hurry though, and makes malf clearance a "why doesn't this go all the way back" thing.

As well, you've got that one on the top of the stock, at the butt. That did a real number on me trying to get smooth presentations while wearing a GoreTex jacket (in that part of Arizona, July is monsoon season - and unless there's lightning, rain is just another training aid! HA!) as it'd snag just enough to mess with me. One of the instructors said that it was for a 3-point sling, but I haven't tried that yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYprolitariat
7) Barrel looks too skinny for me. Does it heat up rapidly compared to say a std. wt. M-4?

It gets hot, but that doesn't seem to matter much. Plenty of cooling room between the fore end and the barrel. Just beware, if you touch the gas block, you'll leave skin behind. I can say this without reservation: I would NOT go with a heavier barrel. That is, if it's a CQB stick. If you're going to use it as a "do everything" stick, like in a 20" 6.5 Grendel, then sure, a heavier barrel would be a good idea. Robinson will let you select the length and contour of your choice (light, heavy, etc) but I think only light 16" barrels are available now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYprolitariat
What kind of flash hider does it have? The site has two types shown in its pics of the weapon.......the old AR-15 prong and the newer birdcage.

Mine came with the newer birdcage. I say "came with", because it was taken off pretty quick. For real flash hiding, I prefer one of two hiders.... if you want the pics of flash at night, let me know LOL! The Vortex G36 is great on flash, but has open forks. I don't live where that bothers me, so I go with that. The for-real Phantoms are just as good in my opinion, and have closed forks. However, our good friend Bill Moore has explained that these break routinely under hard usage (like 80 to 100 K rounds). If you don't mind changing them out every so often, and need to worry about closed forks, that might be the way to go. In either case, if you're using good ammo (not with some funky big-flash ball powder), the flash is shifted enough into the red, that I've never had much problem as far as my eyes acclimation to the dark. Even with the birdcage hider.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYprolitariat
9) Is gas piston attached to bolt carrier ala AK-47 or separate like the FAL? Is the spring wrapped around it also like the FAL or is it like an AK?

The piston itself is a just that, a long rod that mates with the gas regulator. It comes back, and has two locking lugs that hang down off of it. The locking lugs mate into the carrier, so it's like the AK, but in two pieces. The two lugs straddle (fore and aft) the bolt though, so you can't have the bolt pivot or fall out of the carrier (while it's out of the stick) like you can with the AK. The spring is 100% AK. Goes straight into the gas piston, and the rear is the locking point for the upper / lower. But I'm not sure what you mean about the piston on the FAL and it's spring.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYprolitariat
10) Have you spoken to RA lately as the due dates on the next calibers avalible and what type of mags it will use for each caliber? (Especially the AK!!!).

Actually, I haven't asked those questions. Alex said they're coming, but I didn't ask when. He's interested in doing a 6.5 Grendel as well, which makes sense, 'cause it will take the 7.62 Soviet bolt and mags (good AR type mags in 6.5 Grendel are already available elsewhere). He did say that the 7.62X39 will take proprietary mags. Believe it or not, I think that's a good thing, if the mags are done well. One of the good points on the AR series is that they're easy to keep fed. The AK mags (in the AK) can be changed out really rapidly, but that's due to the trigger guard placement and shape. Typically rock-to-lock isn't as quick, and isn't nearly as dexterious while doing a tactical reload. For mag retention, I prefer something that works like the AR. The way he talked, the proprietary 7.62X39 mags will be AR style.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYprolitariat
11) I know this is bad question to ask someone to do to their expensive weapons........but have dropped it yet or put it through any sand or mud tests? I've done this to several weapons and not many made it past this stage(AR-15 series especially) I always drop test mine(from about 5 feet) with a primed case in in them to see if they will fire for my own safety reasons! If it fires, it goes off never-never-land, never to be seen again!

Not yet, I wanted to make sure it was "good to go" for Gunsite. That part is coming (GRIN), as it survived the rigor of that place. I know that it didn't care anything about lots of sand blowing in through the ejection port or rain. With the redesigned trigger, I doubt that it'll be a problem. The downside of the new trigger is that it's not what one would consider ideal. I'm investigating how to correct that though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYprolitariat
Sorry for all questions Bravo......but you've got my attention now and I'm somewhat interested.

Por nada! I will say one thing though....... I went out there to find out how to run a carbine specifically. In all my years, I've always used carbines as short, light rifles. Well heck, there had to be SOME difference, eh? So I found out what that difference is, and one of the major things is how it's employed. While I can take a good stick (say a '14), and hold it on target for a short period (like 5 minutes), I'm doing so by tucking my support elbow into my ribcage. The offhand position for proper carbine usage is VERY different. It comes in much closer to the neck, and targets are engaged standing square to them instead of at a riflemans oblique. That means the stick is straight out in front of you, and the support arm has to be up to the task.

One of the guys I know out there (from the old days) is also the smith at 'Smithy. He was supposed to get two XCRs in already, but they haven't got there yet. So he wanted to see mine. He had some excellent critiques, and some excellent observations! One of those observations was that the way I had mine rigged (no mud flaps or cup holders) it came in at between 9.25 and 9.5 pounds unloaded. Figure 10.5 pounds with a steel 30 rounder in place.

To put it bluntly, my arms weren't up to the task. One of the instructors said I either needed to buy more muscles or a lighter carbine. As my smith buddy noted, for that weight, we could have a 308! Eh, actually, I noted on the front of his 4 wheeler he had a FAL with an 18" barrel...... I came away thinking that for a for real fighting stick, I'll investigate that Carbon15 that Bushy sells (GRIN). Really though, there wasn't ANYTHING they had us doing from 20-25 yards on back, that I couldn't do just as well (or better) with a rifle than I could a carbine. And there wasn't anything from 20-25 yards on in, that I felt the carbine was significantly better than a good 12 gauge..... I'm personally thinking that fielding a rifle is still the A+ answer. I'll just have my almost famous uncle Hans build me a good 14" 870 for those times a rifle just won't do, and be happy.

At least until next year, 'cause I've gotta take another course somewhere, eh? HA!

If you wanna drop me your number, I'll try and give you a call in the evening.
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Old 02-13-2007, 05:32 PM   #76
TC
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2
I'd love to hear more updates on your experiences. I'm going to participate in the group buy going on here:

http://www.floridashootersnetwork.com/p ... hp?t=16601

(I don't believe you have to be in Florida to participate) and I've been reading everything I can get my hands on. Your review was fantastic, the most in-depth I've seen by a long shot!!
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Old 03-16-2007, 11:07 PM   #77
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3
safety spring installation Robinson XCR

Does anyone know how to replace the safety spring on a Robinson XCR????
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Old 05-11-2007, 06:49 AM   #78
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Melbourne, Florida
Posts: 36
Installs just like an AR safety spring...

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v347/eringobragh/Picture004.jpg[/img]
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Old 07-16-2007, 04:29 PM   #79
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,362
Update on the XCR!

Well, I had an interesting last couple of days. First off, I always check out what John Farnam has to say. He's a smart puppy, and although I've never gotten to the east coast to attend one of his classes, one of my mentors speaks highly of John after attending courses.

Well Farnam has decided that the XCR is THE stick. Great. Makes me feel good that I got mine first, and came to essentially the same conclusion before he did

But it appears John one-upped me. Sunday in his quips section he posted that he'd been in contact with Alex Robinson about the 6.8 SPC conversion for the XCR.

That's all well and good, but I have no interest in the 6.8 SPC. Not with ammo supplies and mags being what they are. Besides, if I'm going to convert my XCR to a different caliber, the 6.5 Grendel calls out to me.

Then he dropped the bomb...... Alex has stated that the XCR in 7.62 NATO will be coming out soon. Oh, and the 7.62X39 as well.

The 7.62X39? Ditto for the 6.8 - no interest. But the 7.62 NATO? LOTS-O-LOTS of interest! So I called Ty today, and got the low-down. The 308 version is actually a scaled-up XCR (doesn't use the same upper or lower) and the expected date of release is about this time next year. At this point, there's no word on which mags it'll use though.

My statement was that I'm wanting to pick up at least three new battlerifles before the 2008 elections - just in case things don't go the way I'd prefer that they did. Ty's reply was that they're trying to get these out the door before the '08 elections 'cause EVERYONE was concerned about them

Now I'll admit that I've never handled one of the 308 varieties, but due to several factors, if they're legal to buy I'll pick 'em up when they come out. It seems to have all the up-sides of the ratguns, with none of the down-sides. Quick change XCR barrels, LaRue quick detach scope rings, and modularity would turn it from a svelt barrelled battle rifle to a heavy barrelled / magnified optic spotters stick in no time. Sign me up.

FWIW......
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