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Old 11-21-2004, 06:16 AM   #1
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45-70 questions. WildWest Guns and Brockmans

45-70 guide gun questions (WildWest Guns and Brockmans)
Thinking of getting a 45-70 Marlin guide gun. Thinking of having the co-pilot model made for me by Wild West Guns in Alaska.

Does anyone have any comments about this gun? Does the dissaembly and assembly of the gun become loose after awhile or does it hold up strong?

Anyone have ideas also about the 45-70 guide guns that are made by Brockmans?

How is the 45-70 recoil with a ported barrell? (18.5 or 20")? How does it compare to say a 12 guage, 375 H&H, or regular 30-30?


Thanks.
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Old 11-21-2004, 08:27 AM   #2
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holy moly are those co-pilots expensive

marlin does not port the guide guns anymore, I do not know why. maybe WWG has some sort of recoil reducing muzzle feature.

I can tell you in a full size 1895SS the recoil with 405g bullets over 3031 for 1800 fps is thoroughly unpleasant.

I have a friend who likes to pretend recoil does not bother him, but he declines to shoot that load much, if at all.

a .30-30 is in a different world altogether. 12 ga slug, still not enough recoil to compare, though maybe a 12 ga magnum 3". the only .375 I shot had a MB, so I cannot compare it either.
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Old 11-21-2004, 09:28 AM   #3
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I've shot all three of these combinations. The Marlin was an older model with a 22" barrel, the shotgun is a 18" Remington 870 and the 375H&H is a Sako Safari. The 45-70 loaded with a 405g at 1800fps in a guide gun will recoil more than shotgun slugs or .375H&H.

The shotgun operates at lower pressure and doesn't generate as much muzzle velocity. The .375H&H is heavier than the Marlin and I have not seen anything over 300g for this cartridge.

In the Hodgdon loading manual there are loads to push a 300g bullet at well over 2200fps. 30-30 ammunition typically pushes a 150g bullet to the same velocity. That's double the energy and double the momentum.

I don't know about the take down guide guns. I suppose a steady diet of hot loads could shake them loose after awhile. What is your reason for wanting the takedown model? I recall reading that this gun is for a niche market of bush pilots who fly in and out of Canada on a regular basis.

All of that being said, the recoil discussed above is based on handloaded ammunition. Factory 45-70 ammunition is loaded to mild pressures and lower velocity and less recoil.
 
Old 11-22-2004, 01:32 PM   #4
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I don't know what WWG builds their Co-Pilots out of to make them so expensive! Must be made from Unobtanium.

Z-Hat Custom does a take-down conversion for the '95 Winchester, and he only charges $815 (quote from about a year ago) with the original barrel. He doesn't do the conversion on Marlins, but I could have him make my '95 into a 20" take-down, in .411 Hawk. Including the price of the rifle, I'd have something quite formidable and still be a few hundred$ ahead of the game.

The Co-Pilot is reported to be a sweet little gun, but there are other options. If Z-Hat can convert a '95 for under a grand, somebody out there must do the Marlins for a similar number.
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Old 11-22-2004, 03:52 PM   #5
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wwG cost

Wild West Guns only charge $550 to do a take down conversion on a marlin you already own.

The high cost for the co-pilot, is that it includes the rifle itself, the take down conversion, dehorning, trigger job, replacement extractor, large gun lever loop, porting and recrowning of barrel. Aslo include forward mounted scout scope mount and Leoupold scout scope, custom Ghost ring sights, and a custom finish, and kevlar stock. Also, rechambers the barrel to accept the standard 45-70 rounds and a special .457 handload. If you add all that up then comes to around $3000.

That seems to be about average for a complete custom built rifle these days.
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Old 11-22-2004, 04:09 PM   #6
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Ok, that sounds more reasonable.
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Old 11-22-2004, 06:19 PM   #7
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Wuss did they add the titainum Kanewder Valve to the rifle for that price?


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