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Old 11-16-2012, 12:45 PM   #41
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IC,

Big congrats on the Carbine…they’re about as much fun as you can have with your clothes on.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:41 PM   #42
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Dittos to all the above comments! Plus, the carbine is quite an effective SD rifle in its own right!
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Old 11-16-2012, 03:08 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by IrishCop View Post
Guys, you really have way too much influence over me.

I was at a small gun shop in the Athens area. I was there to check out a 6" Python he had for sale. It was nickle, and just about flawless. I just couldn't bring myself to part with $2,400 and tax. Not for a used gun. I know, it's a Python, and will probably increase in value. But...Damn!

Ah, but hanging on the wall? A decidedly old M-1 Carbine. Inland receiver, the stock has a half worn cartouche on the right side of the stock that LOOKS like a Springfield Armory mark...two crossed cannons (I think) in a circle. The serial number, in the five million range, dates the receiver as 1944. I hold no fantasies that it is all matching parts. He wanted $600 for it. I figured I could tell my lovely wife that I saved her $1,800 dollars! :O)

Got home after dark last night, but I am going to shoot it this afternoon. Just love the feel of these old guns. And I remember the one I had many years ago. It was great fun to shoot. Heck, I even got Wolf ammo for $12.50 a fifty round box.
Congrats!
What you have sounds pretty close in serial # to mine, an Inland that I inherited from my father who brought it back from the Korean War in 1953.
Have fun!
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Old 11-18-2012, 05:57 AM   #44
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Thanks, guys. A little more on it:

Serial # is 5,271,XXX. Puts in made between Jan and Aug 1944. Has the adjustable sight, bayonet lug and safety lever instead of the push button cross block type. The serial number is actually stamped into the wood on the left side of the stock, and painted in with white paint. Wood is dark and has a bunch of dings and scratches. Took it apart to examine and clean it, and the innards look great. Bore is shiny, no rust anywhere on the gun.

My oldest grandson and I took it out to shoot, and it ran great with the Wolf steel cased ammo. Hit where I aimed it at 10 yards or so. Soon as duck season is over, I'm gonna take it out to Swan Creek (a range on a wildlife management area - ask Tommy about it) and see if these old eyes can get a sight picture at 100 yards.

It was just as much fun to shoot as I remember. Now I'm gonna curl up with my "ancient" gun and my box set of Band of Brothers".
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:08 AM   #45
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Yours is about 226,000 later than mine. Mine has the early flip sight, the pushbutton safety (that can be easily changed out for the lever type as yours has) and the second type barrel band without the bayo lug.
The stock on mine has its share of dings. I always wondered what the story behind them was. One of the fascinating things about old military guns is the stories they could tell if they could talk.
I recently saw the DVD set of The Pacific which was a pretty interesting series made by the guys who did Band of Brothers. I have the DVDs of BOB but, dang it, I appear to have misplaced it! I have the entire series of COMBAT! on DVD which follows the 351st through Northern France, and awhile ago I obtained a DVD set of THE GALLANT MEN, another WW2 series that aired alongside COMBAT! but only for one year. It's a pretty good series about the infantry pushing in from Salerno Italy ....it deserved a better life than it was given.
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:13 AM   #46
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Tommy, how did you come by a carbine without the upgrades? I thought the changes were made on just about all the carbines when they were rebuilt in the early '50s. I've also seen them referred to as 'M1A2s'.

Wikipedia also mentions the M1A2 in their M1 Carbine article.

Last edited by shep854; 11-18-2012 at 08:16 AM.
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:28 AM   #47
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Shep, my father brought that carbine home with him when he returned from the Korean War. That would be 1953.
I think at some point maybe it had the type two barrel band stuck on it as a refit.
I think many carbines were actually refitted and reconditioned at the close of WW2, but not all of them. Apparantly my father's missed some refitting -- atleast the rear sight.
Actually I like the "L" type folding sight better. For the type of gun it is that type sight just seems more appropriate to me. The adjustable sights are nice but seem a bit blocky. Plus, I've heard they can be a little sensitive to damage but the ones I've actually seen look pretty robust.

In any case I've seen carbines with a hodgepodge of refits and such, including the older type rear sights. I think the refitters used what they had on hand and if they had no new parts at a point but the old ones were good they simply stuck the old ones back on.
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Old 11-18-2012, 03:57 PM   #48
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AIUI, unaltered flip-sighted rifles are rare. I'm pretty sure repro parts are available to 'restore' carbines to the original configuration. I think about it every once in a while, but I'm so used to the 'M1A2' configuration that the original one just looks odd (even fragile) to me.
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Old 11-19-2012, 05:31 AM   #49
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I sure would like to get some kind of history in regards to my M-1 Carbine. I envy you, Tommy, knowing that your Dad carried that little rifle in Korea.

This is the first military arm I have ever owned that was manufactured and possibly issued during war time(s). If it wasn't for the nerve damage, I'd probably get all Chris Matthewsy and get a thrill running up leg whenever I picked it up.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:11 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shep854 View Post
Tommy, how did you come by a carbine without the upgrades? I thought the changes were made on just about all the carbines when they were rebuilt in the early '50s. I've also seen them referred to as 'M1A2s'.

Wikipedia also mentions the M1A2 in their M1 Carbine article.
I bought an Inland in a pawn shop about a year ago that didn't go through the rebuild process. It's got a high wood I cut stock with all the right cartouches and all early Inland parts. Why it didn't get rebuilt is anyone's guess, my guess is that someone swiped it before that could happen.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:43 AM   #51
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"If only it could talk" is a common thought regarding milsurps...I've often thought that about mine.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:14 AM   #52
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I sure would like to get some kind of history in regards to my M-1 Carbine. I envy you, Tommy, knowing that your Dad carried that little rifle in Korea.

This is the first military arm I have ever owned that was manufactured and possibly issued during war time(s). If it wasn't for the nerve damage, I'd probably get all Chris Matthewsy and get a thrill running up leg whenever I picked it up.
To be precise, IrishCop, my father brought it back from Korea. I don't know that he'd been issued a carbine. My father was U.S. Navy, a Annapolis graduate (class of '4 and served in the U.D.T. during the Korean War.
I recall him discussing being issued a Colt 1911 45ACP during the zerodarkthirty hours of one winter morning and wondering if he'd be able to use it -- being that his triggerfinger would be frozen solid by the time the need arose.
U.D.T. were known colloquilly as "frogmen" and generally would not have been issued longarms if they were using scuba equipment. A handgun is a possibility; I suspect many Colt 1911s saw immersion in saltwater as quite commonplace. An exception would be when using zodiacs to make an approach. There handguns might be common plus a guy or two with a carbine or maybe a Thompson or Greasegun (my father disdained Thompsons as being too heavy). But primarily they were used for demolition work and they'd have a whole load of plastic explosives and detonation equipment.
Necessarily then their weapons would be minimal -- a human can only carry so much!
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:17 AM   #53
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Thanks, guys. A little more on it:

Serial # is 5,271,XXX. Puts in made between Jan and Aug 1944. Has the adjustable sight, bayonet lug and safety lever instead of the push button cross block type. The serial number is actually stamped into the wood on the left side of the stock, and painted in with white paint. Wood is dark and has a bunch of dings and scratches. Took it apart to examine and clean it, and the innards look great. Bore is shiny, no rust anywhere on the gun.

My oldest grandson and I took it out to shoot, and it ran great with the Wolf steel cased ammo. Hit where I aimed it at 10 yards or so. Soon as duck season is over, I'm gonna take it out to Swan Creek (a range on a wildlife management area - ask Tommy about it) and see if these old eyes can get a sight picture at 100 yards.

It was just as much fun to shoot as I remember. Now I'm gonna curl up with my "ancient" gun and my box set of Band of Brothers".
Irish,

I worked for a big importer of Carbines in the ‘80’s and I was the lucky (or unlucky) SOB that went through all 11,000 of them. 4,000 of them were from Israel and many of the one’s from Israel had the serial number stamped in the stock on the left side near the comb. Just wondering if your carbine has an import stamp under the barrel between the bayo-lug and the front sight band? It would probably read: IA CO. SAC. CA
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Old 11-21-2012, 02:00 AM   #54
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Irish,

I worked for a big importer of Carbines in the ‘80’s and I was the lucky (or unlucky) SOB that went through all 11,000 of them. 4,000 of them were from Israel and many of the one’s from Israel had the serial number stamped in the stock on the left side near the comb. Just wondering if your carbine has an import stamp under the barrel between the bayo-lug and the front sight band? It would probably read: IA CO. SAC. CA
Thanks for the tip, Kevin. When I get home tonight I'll check and let you know yea or nay. That would be cool...a WWII gun that actually served in Israel. Kinda poetic, in a way.

I did find a marking on the top of the barrel near the front sight. It says "Inland (something)", underneath that "General Motors", and under that either "3-44" or "8-44". The markings are pretty faint. So, it looks like the receiver and barrel are Inland and the date on the barrel match the production date range listed for the serial number. Haven't found any other markings on the steel anywhere.
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Old 11-21-2012, 03:46 AM   #55
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While by no means rare, having a matching barrel and receiver is 'sorta' desirable. My first carbine was a Rock-Ola receiver and barrel, a relatively rare match. HOWEVER, it was a ROK return, and shot straight--to the left. I swapped it for a Rock-Ola w/other barrel to a man whose father worked at Rock-Ola during the war, and wanted to give it to him as a wall-hanger. Since the trade was a beautiful Austrian LEO send-back, we both were very happy.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:58 AM   #56
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I’ve never understood the desire for an “all matching, all original” M1 Carbine when in reality, they don’t exist. All but a minute percentage were arsenal upgraded, so all the “original” ones were returned to that condition by someone. Now from the standpoint of just having one in that condition with mostly matching parts, that’s cool. The problem is, everyone tries to pass them off as truly original and they’re not. I have seen a grand total of 2 that were truly original; one was still in the wax paper. The other, some SOB electric penciled his SSN into the receiver…it was a Rock Ola.
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Old 11-22-2012, 05:03 AM   #57
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Pete/Kevin:

Went over mine with a flashlight and magnifying glass last night. No import marks Kevin. Woulda been too cool if it could have been a rifle you worked on at one time - or carried by a member of the IDF back in the day.

The date on the barrell IS "8-44". The trigger group is also marked "Inland". Now I am not assuming this gun is "all original". I think the odds against that would just be too damned high. But it is kinda neat having a "GMC rifle".

Pete, too bad about your Rock-Ola. I mean, you could tell everyone that you used your Rock-Ola to Rock and Rolla! (I'm sorry. Couldn't resist.) Mine is shooting dead on at 10 t o 15 yards. Shot it yesterday with my grandson and a friend of his.

I did find out why he is so enamoured with my M-1. It seems the little carbine is featured prominently in one of his zombies" video games.
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Old 11-22-2012, 05:26 AM   #58
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I think I got the far better end of the swap. I got a much better carbine (dead-on accurate), but an older gentleman got an excellent momento of his youth. Now for a paratrooper stock...
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Old 11-22-2012, 05:38 AM   #59
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I’ve never understood the desire for an “all matching, all original” M1 Carbine when in reality, they don’t exist. All but a minute percentage were arsenal upgraded, so all the “original” ones were returned to that condition by someone.
Not only that, but many were originally built with "mixmaster" parts. Some makers specialized in some parts, and supplied them to others; some makers used other makers' parts when their own were in short supply, and so forth.
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Old 11-22-2012, 05:46 AM   #60
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Thanks for the tip, Kevin. When I get home tonight I'll check and let you know yea or nay. That would be cool...a WWII gun that actually served in Israel. Kinda poetic, in a way.

I did find a marking on the top of the barrel near the front sight. It says "Inland (something)", underneath that "General Motors", and under that either "3-44" or "8-44". The markings are pretty faint. So, it looks like the receiver and barrel are Inland and the date on the barrel match the production date range listed for the serial number. Haven't found any other markings on the steel anywhere.
Back in the '80s when the last big batch of carbines came in (and were wholesaling in the $150-$165 range), I called up one of the big importers/wholesalers of them (might have been Century, I don't remember exactly) and asked if they'd sell me a naked barrelled receiver (I had a buttload of carbine spare parts). They said they just happened to have a few that they'd cannibalized for parts for others and would be glad to sell me one for $95. Deal! It turned out to be an Inland with a date-correct Inland barrel (almost certainly original) and it came through with NO import markings. Better yet, the SN range was correct for my original M1A1 stock. Don't you love it when a plan just comes together all by itself.
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