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Old 07-29-2012, 06:44 AM   #41
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Thanks for the hint on Bar-Sto Mr. Marlowe... glad you dropped in.

I visited Insight some time ago and was impressed by their imaging stuff but everyone I knew there must be gone and I haven't gotten any press stuff in some time.

Sean, I've seen a triangluar shaped can but all I remember was that it was expensive.

I admit that my experience is limited to one, but I quite a bit of testing and the barrel- I tried two one from Storm Lake and the other from Fire Dragon (?)- was not the issue. Both were drop in and were <2" @25 without the can and more like 4-6" with.

Even if you were up to no good I think the .22 is they way to fly...
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Old 07-29-2012, 08:43 AM   #42
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Charlie

If after your trying two different barrels and getting the same results, I would conclude that while it might be quiet, that suppressed 1911 in centerfire is not the ticket for our goal of quiet practice where accuracy was absolutely required out at say 50 yards or more. Could be that the dynamics of the barrel link system just does not like the mass hanging off the end of the barrel.

I think I will be perfectly happy with the suppressor I can swap around on the 22 rimfires for practice.

BTW...the AR with cast bullets. There are several loads one guy thought the guy with the suppressed AR had tried with 18 to 20 gains of H335 and/or IMR 4895. None of these are sub-sonic, mostly in the 1,550 to 1,950 fps range would be a guess. Having the mold and gas checks, I am going to try it. I would have no problem with going sub-sonic and running the AR as a single shot if it was more accurate that way. Even that might function the action if I reduce the recoil spring tension, which means a dedicated AR for the cast bullets. Here again, it might just be better to get a proper 22 rimfire upper that is accurate and call it good.
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Old 07-29-2012, 12:50 PM   #43
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Ah so grasshopper...

I don't think the weight is the issue. While it would make the lockup more dependent on the top lugs I don't think the degradation in accuracy can be explained with just weight.

FWIW: I studied the can 12 ways from Sunday and found no evidence of bullet strikes on the baffles.


I'd really be curious if we would see the same accuracy effect with 9mm or .40
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Old 07-29-2012, 02:44 PM   #44
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The .578-28 thread is most probably a thread for a compensator rather than a supressor. IIRC, there's a 9/16" super fine thread spec that's been used for that purpose and is close enough to work. The question is if someone actually threads supressors for it.

The Kart 6" barrel is full diameter beyond where the bushing would be. So is the Clark barrel, but the Clark chamber is more generous.

Hmmmmmmm...wonder if the Briley spherical bushing arrangement would tighten groups vs the standard bushing with the can.

Last edited by William R. Moore; 07-29-2012 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 07-29-2012, 07:50 PM   #45
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good question... I did not like that bushing in a standard gun but it probably would support the barrel more with the weight.

FWIW: I did select bushings to use with the two barrels I tried with the can so they weren't sloppy.
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Old 07-30-2012, 09:07 AM   #46
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Dan01, ALL,

OR maybe you're trying to thin out the feral hog population & want to get more than 1 at a shooting session. - i have friend with a "homebrewed" 2" case sub-sonic .458 wildcat that is REALLY quiet.
(when he registered his intent to build & paid for the tax stamp, a BATFE guy & a DUSM paid him a visit, just because they wanted to SEE, HEAR & SHOOT it. - the DUSM wanted Fred to BUILD one for him, as well.)

what i NEED (i think) is a ambidexterious .22 "pest control rifle" that won't disturb anyone at the mountain lair.

note: one of my close friends from "boarding school daze" has a Scottish-made .380 target RIFLE that i quieter than MOST suppressed weapons AND doesn't have to have a tax stamp. = it was manufactured in 1893 & it shoots .38SPL wadcutters WELL out to about 75M.

yours, satx
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Old 08-05-2012, 07:58 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Henderson View Post
P. Marlowe...
Thanks for the mention of Bar-Sto. It appears they do have what they call a Match Target, which is oversize to allow it to be hard fitted, and can be threaded for a suppressor you must specify to them. I will have to give them a call to see what the price works out to be. For my own use, I would likely fit one to dedicated Caspian slide/barrel for the suppressor.

Then the trick becomes finding a 45 Cal suppressor that one can sight over with normal height iron sights on a 1911. I seem to remember seeing one that had what must have been offset baffles, as the can had flat sides and most of the body hung down under the bore center line.

Of course, the prices of the barrel, etc, and the 45 Cal suppressor could quickly add up, making the 22 rimfire Marvel Type 1 1911 conversion with a suppressor a fine place to stop.
“Sean Henderson”

Bar-Sto’s less-than-user-friendly website would seem to indicate that the only thread size for their .45 caliber "Extended & Threaded" Match Target Government Barrels is the .578in x 28 I mentioned. But like I said (and there can certainly always be exceptions), the good thing is that I think that size is relatively common for.45 caliber canisters industry-wide. And if that doesn’t work for you I know that in the past, the folks at Bar-Sto used to work around some (not all) dimensional impediments if it was safe, possible and the customer needed it. I don’t know about their approach to such matters these days for some things are no longer possible. But in any case, they’re great people and it’s worth asking.

That said, I think you might have some trouble finding an inexpensive, non-concentric/symmetrical device to fit to that 1911 barrel or any other. I’m not that knowledgeable regarding this stuff but if you’re looking to keep the costs down, that format might not be in the cards. One of the nice things about the kind of sighting device that Charlie and I are talking about is that it can always be bolted to something else years down the road if this application is no longer in use.

And for the practiced shooter, these small scale “red dots” are really pretty neat regardless of what they are attached to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Petty View Post
Thanks for the hint on Bar-Sto Mr. Marlowe... glad you dropped in.

I visited Insight some time ago and was impressed by their imaging stuff but everyone I knew there must be gone and I haven't gotten any press stuff in some time.

Sean, I've seen a triangluar shaped can but all I remember was that it was expensive.

I admit that my experience is limited to one, but I quite a bit of testing and the barrel- I tried two one from Storm Lake and the other from Fire Dragon (?)- was not the issue. Both were drop in and were <2" @25 without the can and more like 4-6" with.

Even if you were up to no good I think the .22 is they way to fly...
Quote:
Originally Posted by stand watie View Post
Dan01, ALL,

OR maybe you're trying to thin out the feral hog population & want to get more than 1 at a shooting session. - i have friend with a "homebrewed" 2" case sub-sonic .458 wildcat that is REALLY quiet.
(when he registered his intent to build & paid for the tax stamp, a BATFE guy & a DUSM paid him a visit, just because they wanted to SEE, HEAR & SHOOT it. - the DUSM wanted Fred to BUILD one for him, as well.)

what i NEED (i think) is a ambidexterious .22 "pest control rifle" that won't disturb anyone at the mountain lair.

note: one of my close friends from "boarding school daze" has a Scottish-made .380 target RIFLE that i quieter than MOST suppressed weapons AND doesn't have to have a tax stamp. = it was manufactured in 1893 & it shoots .38SPL wadcutters WELL out to about 75M.

yours, satx
Charlie (and “stand watie”):

There were a lot of changes up at Insight in terms of people and structure; some of them related to the buyout and subsequent restructure. Our friend Paul is still there and I’ll give him a shout this week (we need to talk about something anyway) and have him call you if you’d like.

As to suppressed .22’s, when one of our other friends (Mr. Smith) and I were teaching those government folks in Australia eons ago, we were down there so long, that they would find things for us to do in an effort to “return the favor” and one them involved the opportunity to shoot a Parker-Hale (type) suppressed Czech Bruno bolt action .22LR with and without subsonic ammo, which was perfectly legal “down there” at the time.

We were in an amazingly “rural” area that day and I believe the aforementioned Mr. Smith might still have a video of me dry firing, live firing and live firing into far away rocks because it was only the whining of the ricochets off the rocks in the distance that made it clear to anyone watching the tape that something was being launched from the rifle. For otherwise, everything else “sounded” the same. That’s because whether dry firing or live firing (without the solid backstop), all one could hear was a clicking of the mechanism and maybe a spring or two from somewhere inside the gun.

It was not a fancy setup by any means. The CZ was a field grade something or other and the Parker-Hale copy was not only a common accessory in that country but the one we were using had been banging around (literally) for years. Yet, when we were shooting this combination for real, it was devastatingly accurate on both live and inanimate objects. So I think that this proves one doesn’t have to spend a fortune for what might be the kind of “pest control rifle” that “stand watie” is looking for.

Domestically, all I can say is that having lived and worked in parts of this country where such things are legal, I was always impressed with the type of set-up mentioned by you (Charlie) that not only worked as intended but that looked no more exotic than a bull barreled rifle or handgun. Such rigs were low profile and allowed (again where legal) for shots to be taken either unknown to others or untroubling to the shooter. I’ve seen both bolt guns and semi-auto’s set up that way and most of them weren’t stupidly expensive even with the registration factored in.

As I said, this is not really my thing. It is only my work that has occasionally brought me into contact with such technology. But knowing how widely these devices were used before the NFA in regard to recreational shooting indoors as well as killing pests and vermin around livestock (I once owned a relatively rare Savage pump .22 – it was only made for a couple of years sometime at the beginning of the last century – that had been threaded and fitted with a thread protector like so many of the Winchesters one sees set up that way – which, by the way, might meet “stand watie’s” ambidextrous requirement), one wonders how far the technology might have advanced were it not for the apparent over-reaction to them and other things in the 1930’s.

You take care

[Oh yeah, somewhere else on this site, I think I saw a thread bemoaning the fact that .22 ammo these days leaves a bit to be desired. Charlie: our revolver buddy with whom we shared a drink one night at SHOT in 2011, tells me in his work these days, he often has trouble finding .22 rounds that (for a variety of reasons from reliability to accuracy) are capable of keeping up with and proving out what he is doing. So he buys up every bit of-the-now-discontinued .22 Pistol and Rifle match he can find and he also is experimenting with things like GEMTECH subsonic stuff that they are having loaded to their specs (for accuracy as much as speed) in non-suppressed firearms. It might bear looking into in regard to the issues the folks here were raising in that thread.]

Quote:
Originally Posted by William R. Moore View Post
The .578-28 thread is most probably a thread for a compensator rather than a supressor. IIRC, there's a 9/16" super fine thread spec that's been used for that purpose and is close enough to work. The question is if someone actually threads supressors for it.

The Kart 6" barrel is full diameter beyond where the bushing would be. So is the Clark barrel, but the Clark chamber is more generous.

Hmmmmmmm...wonder if the Briley spherical bushing arrangement would tighten groups vs the standard bushing with the can.
“William R. Moore”:

I don’t mean to sound argumentative but in double-checking a few things for this and my first post to this thread, I see where GEMTECH’s Blackside suppressor is threaded in “0.578-28 for the Glock 21, 1911, and other barrels”, where Silencerco offers “.578 x 28” threads on .45 caliber models “commonly” intended “for 1911, Sig P220, Springfield XD, FNP 45” firearms, where the AAC EVOLUTION-45 is set up for the “½-28”, and so on. The exceptions or options in this caliber with most of these folks seem to revolve around two other sizes used to fit two different HK pistols. So while it might very well be associated with compensator installations as well (I can’t speak to that), I think that “.578 x 28” threads do seem to be something of the norm when it comes to .45’s.

“Sean Henderson” (again)

In making sure that I wasn’t being misleading about that thread size, I also made sure that the Silencerco Osprey was still to be found on their site. It is an eccentric model and you might want to take a look at it. I have never used one and I have never had any dealings with the company but as this product of theirs does fall in line with what you were discussing, I thought you might want to know. I think it retails for around $850 not including the fed fees or the barrel that it needs to fit on to.

Hope this helps all of you or at least provides you with some interesting (or least amusing) reading on a Sunday afternoon.
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:22 PM   #48
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I know this is an old post, but I've just gotta satisfy my curiosity here...

You mentioned that this is a 10/22? My question is, with what magazine are you running the subsonic ammo through? Because everything you've mentioned here, to me, indicates that it's a magazine problem. Particularly, large capacity off-brand (NOT genuine Ruger) magazines will do this. I have an older Ram-Line 30-round mag that shoots OK with standard rounds, but has a real problem with subsonic. However, when I put those same subs in a Ruger BX-25, they shoot fine.
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Old 10-13-2012, 05:41 AM   #49
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It may be that high capacity magazines contribute because when they're full there is quite a bit of pressure on the bolt that slows it down.

I've never had a problem with standard velocity ammo when using original Ruger 10 round magazines
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Old 10-13-2012, 11:16 AM   #50
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And having acquired a couple of the BX-25's and cleaning the gun properly, my issues have disappeared...
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Old 10-13-2012, 08:32 PM   #51
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Huzzah! great to hear! LOL
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Old 05-19-2013, 11:01 AM   #52
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tried the Aquila 60 gr subsonics? more oomph in the .22lr, while suppressed. The AR-15, being gas-operated, is not as recoil sensitive about lower velocity loads. They sell 100 gr subsonic 223 ammo, which cycles AR"'s reliably.
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Old 09-26-2014, 12:28 PM   #53
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I use the Aguila 60 grain in my 10/22 and have never had a problem. Not once. I installed a Kidd guide road and spring kit in it and it works perfect. Comes with three springs each with different resistance. One is for subsonic and it works great!
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Old 09-27-2014, 08:18 AM   #54
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Harbor freight has one for around $70.

Surely you don't believe everything you are told...
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