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Old 07-11-2012, 05:51 PM   #21
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Charlie, does the addition of a can to a bolt rifle do anything at all to change POI of the bullet?

I'm thinking not, but one of my squirrel hunting friends asked.
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Old 07-11-2012, 07:15 PM   #22
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Harbor freight... $69 on sale
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Old 07-11-2012, 08:14 PM   #23
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TO ALL,

i'm "considering" a .22 supressed rifle. = WHICH, as a southpaw, should i pick?
(i'm thinking that it might be a "good thing to have", especially in "little brother's" capable hands.)

fwiw, we used to have (on base) a .22LR for "pest control"(it belonged to the Game & Fish Dept of the PMO & our chief game warden "kept it checked out on hand receipt", so i seldom even saw it.) that was "quiet as a mouse" but i DISREMEMBER what it was, except a semi-auto in SS.

yours, satx
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Old 07-12-2012, 05:57 AM   #24
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About $70 at Harbor Freight.

carbon is not a hazardous waste...
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Old 07-12-2012, 03:45 PM   #25
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I expect he's thinking about all those lead particulates and various substances from the primers.....assuming that rimfire primers have those compounds.

I've also been wondering about the result on accuracy and POI. I've got a couple rifles that I think about, but they're so accurate I'm really, really hesitant to alter them. Trying out loads using different powders in 7.62 has made me exceeding leary. I've seen some wierd POI results I can only think come from alterations in the vibration pattern of the barrel. The same bullet moving the same velocity but with a different pressure impulse. If I get time, I may play with velocity changes just to see what happens, but I need the velocity to shoot to the drop tables.

I expect a good bit of any effect on accuracy would be how well the barrel threads were cut with respect to concentricity and form. Not to mention how good the can builder is.

Last edited by William R. Moore; 07-12-2012 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 07-12-2012, 07:28 PM   #26
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There isn't a short answer to change in point of impact

With rimfires there doesn't seem to be a big difference.

I've shot AR types in 5.56 and 6.8 with Surefire cans with no effect.

Same is true for a .308 bolt gun again with a Surefire. I shot a Remington 700P @300 yd alternating shots with and without the can. All shots hit a 6" diameter plate @300

But with one on a .45 both M&P and 1911 there was a significant change... several inches @25 yd and a bunch @70. My conclusion was to sight in with the can and leave it alone.

One of the most fun guns is a 10-22 with an integral can. The diameter is slightly larger than a bull barrel but most strangers don't notice it. With standard velocity it is very quiet the most sound coming from the bolt cycling.
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Old 07-13-2012, 05:59 AM   #27
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PS: rimfire primers are somewhat different chemically but the lead compounds are the same
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Old 07-13-2012, 03:51 PM   #28
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Charlie Petty,

if you were going to buy ONE suppressed .22 SA rifle for "pest control", which would you pick? - i'm wondering about the SS Rugar with barrel as suppressor.- are they tough, QUIET & accurate?
(you can write everything i know about these weapons in a marchbook with a marks-a-lot.)

yours, sw
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Old 07-13-2012, 04:53 PM   #29
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Yes to all

Mine is made by John Norell in Little Rock, AR on a stainless 10-22

I know there are lots of different makes and I got this one because that's what the dealer had...

If I was going to get another I'd look very hard at Tactical Solutions in Boise
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Old 07-13-2012, 06:26 PM   #30
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Charlie Petty,

THANKS MUCH!

yours, sw
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Old 07-27-2012, 08:23 PM   #31
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I have a very old Daisey BB Gun that is really quiet....All you can hear with all the ammo types is a soft "thuunk".....Very few FTFs over the years as long as I pour the 3 n 1 oil down the bore.......................Seriously, I want to hear my firearms go bang and I want the people I shoot at to not hear the bang or even notice the bang....If you are trying to hide your firearm's bang you are probably up to no good.
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Old 07-28-2012, 03:33 AM   #32
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Or maybe you are teaching new shooters to shoot without flinching. Maybe your range is close to neighbors and you are trying to be polite. Maybe you value your hearing. There are lots of reasons to suppress a firearm that are benign.
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Old 07-28-2012, 04:43 AM   #33
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I agree with Tim...and not disturbing ones neighbor is high on my list of reasons for obtaining a suppressor. Protecting my hearing is another.

Walt...I am going to thread the barrel on the Biathlon rife and the Marvel Type 1 that I keep on the Kimber 1911 frame for a suppressor. For rimfire I want one that I can completely apart and clean.

Not sure I will bother with bigger stuff, like the 45, 30 or the 223, but then again, having only the sonic crack from those would be darn nice.
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Old 07-28-2012, 07:25 AM   #34
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Sean I've shot all of those and if you can do it subsonic is the way to go. Sadlly that isn't easy with the bigger calibers and if there is an echo where you shoot the sonic crack is really loud.

I was able to get a load for the 6.8 that would work in the AR and still be subsonic using common components.

The threads for the muzzle brake/flash hider on the M&P 22 so I can go back and forth with the same can...
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Old 07-28-2012, 07:53 AM   #35
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Charlie...Good to hear from you! Walt does his best to suppress all the rumors about you

Know a guy how switches a 30 Cal suppressor across sun-sonic loaded 30's, the 6.8 and a 223 with cast bullet handloads and some jacketed bullets. The 223 AR will even cycle fine with 55 gr cast and with reasonable accuracy, about 1.5" to 2.0".

Anyway, I was surprised at how darn quite the 223 was running through the 30 Cal suppressor. Enough so that I would just do the 30 Cal suppressor and call it good.

Not sure about doing this on one of my 1911's...it would need to be dedicated as I suspect the POI would change significantly with and without the suppressor. And I need to find a source for an accurate oversize barrel, and with a bushing baring surface that was long enough to allow me to hard fit the barrel to a 5" slide....and have the needed extension to allow threading for the suppressor. Do you know of such barrels that are at least Kart quality?
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Old 07-28-2012, 08:45 AM   #36
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I'd sure like to know what his .223 load is

My experience with the .45 can has been less than stellar. It's quiet enough but there is a shift of poi by several inches and a similar reduction in accuracy.

I don't know of a gunsmith fit threaded barrel but I guess you could get a 6" Kart and cut/thread it. I have a Storm Lake 1911 barrel that is pretty good w/o the can and also one of the M&P threaded barrels. Had to put a Delta Point on both since the can blocks the normal sights.

Tell Walt to quit telling lies...
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Old 07-28-2012, 10:35 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Petty View Post
Tell Walt to quit telling lies...
I am wounded beyond measure...
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Old 07-28-2012, 02:43 PM   #38
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Charlie...Next time I run into him I will ask all the details. I got a 55 grain mold that will through more like a 58 to 60 grain bullet just because of that conversation with him. I have not ruled out cutting coils in the recoil spring for a dedicated cast bullet AR, but he is getting this to work to the point of being usable.

Losing the accuracy would defeat the purpose of it all for personnel practice, and particularly so if I wanted to offer building 1911's configured to accept a suppressor to clients. Could be that barrel/slide/suppressor dynamics in a 1911 design just reduces the accuracy, the same as the indirect gas pistons systems conversions in AR's, the theory being because the systems introduces inconsistent shot to shot barrel vibration. Seems a hard fit 1911 barrel would have less chance of that if nothing in the suppressor baffles was moving, but who knows...

Though about the 6" Kart. Just need to find out if the front bushing boss on the barrel is long enough to engage in any bushing available.

Looking for a Ransom Rest if you know of someone with one they are willing to part with.

BTW...we all know how sensitive Walt is...
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Old 07-29-2012, 02:59 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Petty View Post
I'd sure like to know what his .223 load is

My experience with the .45 can has been less than stellar. It's quiet enough but there is a shift of poi by several inches and a similar reduction in accuracy.

I don't know of a gunsmith fit threaded barrel but I guess you could get a 6" Kart and cut/thread it. I have a Storm Lake 1911 barrel that is pretty good w/o the can and also one of the M&P threaded barrels. Had to put a Delta Point on both since the can blocks the normal sights.

Tell Walt to quit telling lies...
Charlie:

I realize that they aren’t as trendy as they used to be and they have a waiting period that will routinely put you into the season after next but Bar-Sto is making Match Target Government Barrels and Semi-Fit Government Barrels that are "Extended & Threaded" (their words) upfront.

They offer both of them with four different feed ramp options and in the following thread size for a .45 caliber chambering: .578in x 28; which I believe is still pretty much the “standard” or norm for that caliber.

I think they still make other regularly-associated-with-the-1911 caliber barrels in this same “Extended & Threaded” format as well; all with the thread sizes more commonly associated with each of them.

They’re not cheap (what is these days?) and they obviously need some work to install (which shouldn’t be a problem for many of the people here) but they might get folks around the chopping and threading issues previously discussed in this thread.

[I agree with your remarks about the can obstructing the sights but while I am impressed with the Leopold Delta Point, I am really biased to the L-3 Warrior Systems (Insight Technologies) MRDS for it seems to be built to a different standard than most of the others in the field and having worked with some of their other stuff in the past, I’m really dazzled with what they put together. Maybe I'll run the two side-by-side on something one of these days and see how they shake out for once having the Leupold folks almost as neighbors, I certainly like what they do too. Hope you've been well and keeping busy.]
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Old 07-29-2012, 05:37 AM   #40
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P. Marlowe...
Thanks for the mention of Bar-Sto. It appears they do have what they call a Match Target, which is oversize to allow it to be hard fitted, and can be threaded for a suppressor you must specify to them. I will have to give them a call to see what the price works out to be. For my own use, I would likely fit one to dedicated Caspian slide/barrel for the suppressor.

Then the trick becomes finding a 45 Cal suppressor that one can sight over with normal height iron sights on a 1911. I seem to remember seeing one that had what must have been offset baffles, as the can had flat sides and most of the body hung down under the bore center line.

Of course, the prices of the barrel, etc, and the 45 Cal suppressor could quickly add up, making the 22 rimfire Marvel Type 1 1911 conversion with a suppressor a fine place to stop.
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