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Old 02-24-2008, 01:56 PM   #1
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rimless cartridge in lever guns

I would like to load 45ACP in my Puma rifle made for 45colt.
I have never seen a lever gun that would chamber a rimless round. Is this because of the design of the extractor?Can my rifle be chambered to load this round?
My rifle is a clone of the winchester '92.

Joe
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Old 02-24-2008, 06:21 PM   #2
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Why would you want to do that?
You'd probably have to manufacture a barrel with an appropriatly designed chamber and alter the bolt, or manufacture a bolt for .45ACP to do this.
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Old 02-25-2008, 06:02 AM   #3
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unless you have a vast supply of 45acp, there's no logical reason to do this- you can down load the 45 colt with the same recipie as the 45 acp, use the same bullets if you want- btw, isn't the 450 marlim rimless?
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Old 02-25-2008, 06:03 AM   #4
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unless you have a vast supply of 45acp, there's no logical reason to do this- you can down load the 45 colt with the same recipie as the 45 acp, use the same bullets if you want- btw, isn't the 450 marlim rimless?- as far as the rimless thing goes, savage 99, browning blr, and there 's a bunch of others, you just ain't been lookin in the right spots
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Old 02-25-2008, 06:10 AM   #5
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The difference is not just the function of the extractor, but in how various types of cases (rimmed, rimless, semi-rimmed and belted) are headspaced (the distance between the cartridge head and the bolt or breech face) in the firearm.

The rimmed .45 Colt headspaces on the rim while the .45 ACP headspaces on the case mouth. Converting from one to the other would require so much work (rebarreling with an appropriate chamber, extractor, cartridge handing mechanism, etc.) that it would hardly be worth the trouble and expense.
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Old 02-25-2008, 09:45 AM   #6
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rimless cartridge

Thanks for those answers. I guess I'll forget about it. (for now)

Joe
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Old 02-25-2008, 06:50 PM   #7
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Unlike the other guys here I like the idea. Would easy nope but it would be fun. If YOU want a lever .45 ACP I say go for it. A good gunsmith and some money can go a long way.
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Old 02-25-2008, 08:11 PM   #8
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Are there no gunsmiths here?

Somewhere I have a magazine from the '70's where this was done on a Marlin leveraction.
It entailed a new barrel, modified extractor and alteration to the lifter (that was the only hard part).

The advantage of this would be higher capacity in the magazine tube with the shorter round.
Like original Henry's with the stubby .44 Henry Flat rimfire cartridge carried more rounds than the modern reproductions in .44-40.

In .44 Mag leveractions you can load a round or two extra by using the shorter .44 Special or .44 Russian.

I've thought about doing a '73 clone in a custom "45 Short", 45 LC brass cut down to 45 ACP/AR length. That conversion might only entail a spacer inserted in the lifter, with only some loss of velocity and accuracy with the short round in a LC chamber.

Converting the lifter on a '92 clone would be a little more work so that only one short round is fed onto the lifter and not one-and a-half tying up the gun. That much work and you might as well shorten the chamber by having the barrel set back the appropriate amount. That part is not hard, just takes some time with the lathe.
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Old 02-25-2008, 08:50 PM   #9
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Looky looky at what I found. From the Flagler gun clinic. I also found a article about some Winchester 92s that where made in 45acp and sent to Mexico as custom order. There is also one for sale on link below. Second listing from the bottom.

http://www.leroymerz.com/catalog_C0_13_1.php
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 92mage2.jpg (37.1 KB, 988 views)
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Old 02-29-2008, 08:29 AM   #10
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Lever rifles can be made to function rimless ammunition without too much trouble. In the '60's it was common to convert .32-20 Winchester 92's to .30 Carbine because the Carbine ammo was so cheap.

I've seen Winchester Big Bore 94's with extractor modified to accept rimless .308 based cartridges (.308 & .35 because .307 & .356 brass is hard to come by. I think it's a silly conversion beause you can make your own brass from .444 Marlin, but hey, what do I know.

But to do so, the gun has to be chambered for the intended cartridge. If you try to fire .45 ACP in a .45 Colt gun, you have nothing to headspace off of. Often when this happens, headspacing will default to the extractor, but in the case of the Colt vs. ACP, it's quite likely the ACP may slip the extractor.

To do the conversion, you would have to have the gun re-barreled. Setting the barrel back a few threads can be done, but it complicates other things on the existing barrel such as barrel band cut outs and such.

All said, it's not a real cost effective conversion. For the cost of the conversion, you could come up with a bunch of .45 Colt ammunition.
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Old 02-29-2008, 01:05 PM   #11
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Many years ago I had one of the El Tigre copies that had been rebarreled to .45 ACP. I wish I still had it for it was bunches of fun. It fed and functioned fine with ball ammo but was best as a single shot with wadcutters.
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Old 09-30-2008, 08:35 AM   #12
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Re: rimless cartridge in lever guns

Re rimless cartridges in lever guns, the Marlin 336 is, or was avilable chambered for .35 Remington. The Stevens 425, a lever action made pre WWI, and externally resembling the Marlin, was chambered for .25, .30, .32, and .35 Remington, all rimless cartridges.
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Old 10-06-2008, 09:15 PM   #13
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Re:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speaker-to-Cats
... Somewhere I have a magazine from the '70's where this was done on a Marlin leveraction.
It entailed a new barrel, modified extractor and alteration to the lifter (that was the only hard part)... .
I remember that it was in an issue of the American Rifleman. Since I remember where I lived when I read it, I'd say it was form 1976 to early 1978.

I say, "go for it." I'd buy one if one was available.
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Old 10-07-2008, 11:03 AM   #14
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Re: rimless cartridge in lever guns

Hey guys, how about the .45 auto rim?
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Old 10-07-2008, 06:15 PM   #15
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Re: rimless cartridge in lever guns

.45 Schofield in a .45 colt?

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Old 10-07-2008, 07:29 PM   #16
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Re: rimless cartridge in lever guns

If it could be made to feed and fire .45 ACP, then it might work with the .45 GAP and hold an extra round.
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Old 10-07-2008, 07:39 PM   #17
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Re: rimless cartridge in lever guns

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobMac
Hey guys, how about the .45 auto rim?
It could be done, but the .45 AR is much thicker than normal revolver rounds. You'd need to either have a longer extractor claw and deepen the headspace on the chamber, or mill back the boltface and shorten the firing pin. And you should set back the barrel and cut a proper .45 AR chamber.

That's a lot more work than a .45acp conversion.

Hmm, got me thinking about how to do a two part extractor, long one to grab AR rims and short springloaded one for ACP rims.
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Old 10-07-2008, 07:46 PM   #18
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Re: rimless cartridge in lever guns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushinto
If it could be made to feed and fire .45 ACP, then it might work with the .45 GAP and hold an extra round.
It could, but it would be headspacing only on the extractor.

Course I've seen enough 9mm cases fired in .40 cal chambers to know headspacing on the extractor is enough to go bang.
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Old 01-18-2015, 03:45 PM   #19
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I personally think its a great idea and I wish a manufacturer would jump on the bandwagon. I've seen several similar forums on other sights and everyone says the same thing with head spacing and the issues with actually grabbing the shell for chambering and ejection. From my point of view if you can do it in a bolt action or semi auto repeater like a camp carbine or a delisle then why not a lever action. I know the difference in the feed system between tube and magazine is different but if you apply the principles of a magazine fed (or even made a mag fed lever action to suit your pistol mags so you can dual wield) then I'm sure any manufacturer would have a hard time keeping them on the shelf. Classic western styling meets cheap convenient ammunition (plus you can get the adapters to take rimless ammunition in a revolver Smith & Wesson Model 22 in .45 ACP | Shooting Illustrated )
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Old 01-19-2015, 06:04 AM   #20
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This Probably Won't Help You Down Under...

...but I was reminded that I once bookmarked a US gunsmith who was reported to do .45 ACP conversions on lever guns. I don't see that conversion advertised on his site so it looks as though confirmation is in order, which is why I linked the page with his contact information.
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