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Old 07-06-2007, 04:35 PM   #1
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Remington 7615 Police Patrol Rifle

Does anyone on forum have any experience with the above rifle?
I have one coming and would like to see others opinions of it. Seems like a neat little concept.
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Old 07-07-2007, 04:04 AM   #2
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Re: Remington 7615 Police Patrol Rifle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hummer
Does anyone on forum have any experience with the above rifle?
I have one coming and would like to see others opinions of it. Seems like a neat little concept.
http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/7615.htm

I don't have any experience with that rifle, but Remington Pump Rifles have always enjoyed a good reputation, they just aren't as popular as semi-autos or bolts. Years back I met a Sherriff's deputy, he worked the lonely end of the county and carried a Remington pump shotgun and a Remington pump rifle (I believe it was .30 set up to carry the same number of rounds as the shotgun. Once a month he'd stop by the Gun club where I was a member, shoot up his shotgun ammo, rifle ammo, clean his guns, reload them with fresh ammo, lock them in the trunk and then he'd go shoot in the Bowling Pin matches, wheel gun division, with an old 1950 S&W in .45 ACP with the clips, before they became popular.

Geoff
Who figures he was well equipped for the job.
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Old 07-07-2007, 06:27 AM   #3
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I thought it was just fine. As skeptic said their pumps are well regarded. Since it accepts AR magazines you can have plenty of bullets.

I preferred the ghost ring sight but I also tried a red dot and a low power scope so you can have lots of choices there too.

Accuracy was good- I don't remember precise numbers- but it was easy to make 100 yd. head shots.
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Old 07-07-2007, 03:22 PM   #4
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Charlie/Geoff,

The way I figure it the plus side outweighs the minus side for the following reasons:

1. No gas system to screw things up.
2. Rifle comes free w/ floating barrel from factory.
3. Comes with heavy duty sling system attached to the lower tube.
4. Never saw a 742/760/7600 that did not hit dead center on the primer which is a plus right there.
5. The stock system on the Police Model is weatherproof and indestructable insofar as most actions occur.
6. I have the rifle sight model coming on the theory is I am going to get a B Square Scout scope mount and make it a Scout Rifle sight system.
7. If you fall on it you don't have to worry about breaking it like you do with a AR. It will also tend to survive a vehicle collision better.
8. The AR hi cap mags certainly won't hurt which is a plus in that it cuts down on ammo expenditure as it will about eliminate the spray and pray syndrome.
9. I once saw a bunch of 760s excessed by FBI Quantico 24 years ago. Every last one had the rifling completely shot away for three and four inches down bore ! ! ! ! Every last locking lug was fully engaged showing contact. Normally you won't see but a few contacting initially.
10. With the 16 1/2 barrel the majority of available velocity will have been attained and with a scope the shorter sight radius having been eliminated by the addition the Scout Scope will eliminate that shortcoming.
11. It has a 9 twist barrel so it will take M855/M856 and 69 gr Sierra handloads and I will be testing to 600 yards for sure.
12. When the barrel does get tired it can be rebarreled with a slightly heavier barrel the same length or a little longer. Maybe even in 6MM/223.
13. I figure with the enhanced cleaning schedule I have adopted I figure the barrel will be good for near on 10,000 rounds.
14. The best I can figure the overall length is about one inch longer than the M1 Carbine. At Aberdeen the carbine won hands down against all US military rifles for first round on target in the shortest amount of time. Of course this test was conducted after it was flushed from the system. By the way the BAR beat everything in full auto accuracy as well.

15. For law enforcement application it can be used to buttstroke someone where you don't dare try that with a AR.

On the negative side I see:

1. the factory trigger pulls are not that great but I remember a 742 I had that I worked the trigger on and it was quite nice and always seared up. Then again the factory AR triggers are not real great either.
2. cleaning from the muzzle can be a negative unless a guide is made to keep the cleaning rod from contacting the barrel. I checked and you can get a adaptor for a 17 cal rod that will take 223 brushes so that would be a help. Most of the 22 cleaning rods I have measure .197 diameter so you don't have much room to move before you get "rod rubs crown" condition.
3. I will have to see if I can get a erosion gage fabricated from
http://www.beastwerks.com/Throat_Erosion_Gauge.htm
4. The major disadvantage of the 760 and even the 742 is I never saw a magazine that had high capacity rounds that had feed reliability. I met one guy that said he had one that worked but I was always sceptical of that statement.

First thing I got to looking at was whether a M14 Mag could be rigged to work in one for 243, 260,308,358 and I took a look at it and it is too wide.

The folks that make the new M14 mags would be well advised to look at the 7600/7400 but then again they have to look at large sales to justify engineering and set up expense which kills it immediately. Remington was smart for thinking that modification up.
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Old 07-08-2007, 06:22 AM   #5
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I suspect a good Red Dot sight would be better for this carbine than a low power scope. I haven't had much experience with the durability of the scopes.

Geoff
Who notes low light work is a carbine priority.
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Old 07-08-2007, 10:16 AM   #6
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For my car gun I have a red dot scope and just hope if I need it that I will have time to turn it on before the party starts. Insofar as shooting long range I have not yet found a red dot that will give the precise point of aim on a E silhouette at 600 yards.
I have one that is 5 MOA and for a 100 yards it is OK but 600 I can hide two targets behind it.
The 2X to 3X Scout type scopes are not high precision but if you stick to basics it will get you in the ballpark. Other day I was trying out 22-250 Scout Rifle I built on a 03A3 action and shot a 3/4" group with it from a cold/clean barrel at 100. Last three shots went in 3/8" and I was l very surprised to see that.

That was a pleasant surprise.

Zeroed at 300 a Scout Scope can just about be used by utilizing the 6 o'clock post as a aiming point. Just have to find out where to hold.

The name of the game to achieve reliability and long scope life is zero at long range and hold over/under at further and closer distances. The more you crank a internal adjustment scope the shorter the useful life is going to be. I can't tell you just how many guys I know that have had scope problems from internal adjustment scopes.

I went over to a friend's house near Alabama line on Friday and took my Confederate Swamp Gun with me. We went up to his range and he asked me to take a shot at a head size target at 300.
I put first three in two inches and he thought that was great. I was expecting a wild shot first round but apparently I left the bore in the condition it wanted.

He had a very interesting head shot target. It was actually cut in the shape of a head witht he lower portion getting thinner like the average face. I have been using 4" and 6" steel discs at 300 and they are hard to see with 2X. Especially the 4". Cross hairs cover the entire disc.

I know that zero and if I want to go to 400 I just hold 12" high and it is on the money there. This is the rifle I take for walks with my youngun (80 lb lab) in case we get a shot at a coyote. When I carried a 22 Nylon 66 we constantly had coyotes run out in front of us at 300 yards. Now that I am POA/POI at 300 we don't see any.
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Old 07-15-2007, 05:23 AM   #7
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Well the 7615 has arrived and first impressions are excellent. The short 13" stock is a great idea. 12 1/2" would maybe be a scosh better.
The action operation is absolutely first rate and very smooth. Still I applied Aircraft Grease to the locking lug and cam lobe and guide rail.

20 round mag goes in and falls out on mag release.

Can't see the sights. Hell to get old. I ordered the rifle sights on the barrel and I cannot see the front sight clearly (16.5" barrel) much less the rear sight which I suspected would be the case as I already planned on making it into a Scout Rifle Concept.

Jeff Cooper would never accept that definition as he despised 5.56 and the his weight limit is exceeded for the Scout definition.

The Square D Scout base for the 700 is too short to use the rear sight mount holes and the factory drilled holes in receiver. I suspect what I will be doing is removing rifle sights, shorten the Square D base and drill/tap barrel on top of chamber to utilize this base. Theoretically I could mount a ghost rear sight, leave the front sight on and it would not interfere with Scout Scope use and I would have back up sights if scope goes down.

Trigger pull is typical Remington with creep etc but I can live with it I think. Finish is a dull non reflective finish similar to glass blasting followed by blueing.

Buttplate is compressible and holds shoulder quite well.

Natural pointability is also typical Remington Human Engineering and it points and centers up very quickly.

Next I will check firing pin energy and get a erosion gage fabricated, start a Round Log and then it will be ready for its barrel break in procedure. This little rifle will see lots of rounds no doubt.

All the votes are not it but it appears this will be a winner of a little rifle which is only about 1" longer than M1 Carbine.
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Old 07-15-2007, 08:03 AM   #8
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Do let us know how it groups for you. In the shooting reports I've read on the gun, I've been largely unimpressed by the accuracy figures reported. Not quite as bad as the older Mini14s but nowhere near the groups one expects of a bolt gun or even a fairly standard rack-grade AR.
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Old 07-15-2007, 10:04 AM   #9
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Now you didn't have to go and tell me that ! ! ! ! hahaha
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Old 07-17-2007, 08:24 AM   #10
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Initial testing results.

7/17/07 fired rifle first time. First ten rounds were one and clean with Humpy's White.
Then two and clean. Noted barrel was rough running rod through with patch initially. A muzzle protector rod guide was fabricated on lathe prior to any cleaning to keep the rod from contacting the crown.

Note: This has rifle sights and with short barrel neither sight is clean which will certainly affect target acquisition thus the initial targeting was not acceptable.

Initial break in was with Federal 55 Gr. FMJBT.

At the end of that session I switched to M855 and things got impressive. Gives a nice 5" fireball visible in daylight ! ! ! Also has a very authoritative blast sounding close to a 308. The last five rounds grouped in three inches which I feel will get better when I get a scope on it and have a less of a aiming error.

Striker indent is not what I would like to see. Delivered .017" copper indent two tests. I would have much preferred to see a min of .020" indent for use with M855 ammo.

Indent centrality is a bit off center as well.

This rifle will be a reloaders dream ! ! ! ! New M855 was measured and compared against fired cases and the expansion is only .0007".
Yes 7 ten thousandths of an inch. Cases can be FL sized in this chamber for many firings. This is absolutely the nicest chamber I have ever seen on a factory rifle ! ! ! !

Feed is smooth, extraction is smooth and ejection is excellent. Brass is ejected forcefully towards 2:00 well away from the rifle.

One negative feature one will have to keep in mind with this system if a punch type jag is used the patch will come off when the cleaning rod is pulled back through. I had one patch fall into locking lug recess and jam the action. Thus if this rifle is going to be used for serious social engagements in a party zone atmosphere one best make sure the action will function after cleaning. A slotted patch holder seems to be recommended here or have a bent wire to go in and retrieve the errant patch.

When I obtain sights I can see (read scope) then we will see what the little fellow can do down range.
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Old 07-18-2007, 11:09 AM   #11
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Ordered Aimtech rear sight base yesterday which will allow for the retention of the iron sights as well as the mounting of a scope.

Fired another 12 rounds of M855 and seems to want to group much better. Still a slight rough spot in bore and worked on it with bronze brush some more after firing.

I suspect it will be about 100 rounds down range before this barrel is broken in and ready to prove itself.

Noteworthy is ammonia based bore cleaner (Humpy's White) is taking out copper residue and appears to be cleaning but a bronze brush session after firing broke loose more carbon that was impacted on the bore wall.

It is amazing how much carbon residue is left by just using patches and bore cleaner to clean with which will only get impacted in barrel surface more once it cools and becomes hardened.

I suspect this barrel will be cleaned while warm at no more than 25 round intervals.

As soon as practical I will load up some 69 Gr. Sierras and see how they do.
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Old 07-21-2007, 01:37 PM   #12
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Aimtech base arrived today and I couldn't wait. Mounted on on 7615 and went to range and fired 10 rounds 55 FMJBT and 10 rds of 69 Gr. Sierra. Haven't traced down the problem as yet but there isn't enough elevation to sight it in at 100 yards ! ! ! !
Grouping about 2". Total rounds at this point 71.
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Old 07-22-2007, 03:43 PM   #13
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Well it appears that I have a barrel with a misaligned bore. Started really giving it the once over inspection and finally put white paper in action opening a gave a looksee down bore.

When the eye is placed deadcenter of the bore if the barrel is straight one can detect a slight dark shadow completely around the bore.

In order to bring out the shadow now I have to off set my view an estimated .050" towards the bottom of the barrel and the shadow comes up round so the bore starts off center and takes a dive towards 6:00 or maybe 5:00 in this instance when iron sights are aligned with where the bore is actually pointing they are not only run up high but left so the viewer is looking from 11:00 to get the intersect.

I will be calling Remington next week with the good news.

I had this happen on another factory rifle about 15 years ago. When I zeroed it my windage was way off center. As well when I shot standing it was impossible to call a shot as it had a very funny recoil sensation. Looking down the bore I could tell the bore actually pointed towards 9:00. I replaced the barrel and rear sight centered up perfectly.

Some day I am going to take that barrel and orientate it towards 12:00 and it will be a long range gun for sure.

This is further confirmed by the Aimtech sight base. The see- through tunnel actually is kind of a ghost rear sight so to speak except in this case to align the iron sights while looking through the see thru section I have to look at the extreme upper edge about 11:00 in order to align the sights.

I had hopes of the base aligning well enough to make a combat close range low light ghost ring type rear sight for fast close in target acquisition.
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Old 07-23-2007, 08:49 PM   #14
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Many, many moons ago I toured a couple of the better known custom barrel makers. They were most helpful in answering my various questions. Except one: what was their tolerance for bore straightness?

If'n the bore starts off-center, that's another story.
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Old 07-24-2007, 03:38 AM   #15
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I was over at old gunsmith's house yesterday and he is 80. He showed me his barrel straightness gage he has used for last 35 years he had ground to .2999 for 30 cal barrels. It dropped right through two M1 barrels he had and he placed it in another barrel and it only went in about three inches. He said that rifle shoots very well but at 100 yards requires 25 clicks of elevation to sight it in. I looked down it and couldn't get a shadown until I looked to the low side of center line.
I know from barrel guys I have talked to that they scrap a fair amount of barrels from this problem.

I was at Camp Perry back in about 60 or so and in the Remington place down at end of Commercial Row they had a display and they had a 700 in 300 Magnum and at five feet you could see the muzzle opening was was off to one side.

I have seen a number of Carcanos with offcenter bores as well.

Therefore it is not surprising no one wanted to discuss maintaining centerline problems.

I saw a web site the other day for SAKO???? and it showed a woman inspecting bores for straightness.

Seems I remember that was one of the highest paying job in a gun plant, inspecting barrels for straightness. I have a old gunsmithing book by Vickers I think and he explains the procedure for looking at them.

Gonna call Remington shortly and see if they will send a shipping lable. Even though they pay shipping it is 22 miles to town.

I sent a 700 back to them twice three years ago before they got it right. Could have sent it a third time but last time I only sent them a broken trigger guard.
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Old 07-24-2007, 03:44 AM   #16
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Wonder what the odds are that they only made one bad barrel--and then sent it to the one guy in 10,000 who'd find it?
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Old 07-24-2007, 04:16 AM   #17
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I suspect there are alot more by all manufacturers floating around and folks just don't realize it.

One tell tale way to tell is when your scope you know to work runs out of clicks in a certain direction.
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Old 07-24-2007, 07:32 AM   #18
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If anyone is interested I will find Vickery's book on gunsmithing and transcribe his section on barrel inspection. Will be good information for folks so they can look at their own barrels. I believe he wrote it in the 30s.
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Old 07-24-2007, 02:06 PM   #19
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One time I talked to a guy that had gone through the Sako plant. He said they had one employee who looked through the finished barrels and if he didn't like them he pitched them in the trash.
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Old 07-24-2007, 05:32 PM   #20
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Come to think of it I don't think I have ever seen a SAKO with a bad barrel. Even my 28/30 has excellent barrel.

I talked to a custom barrel manufacturer a couple months back and he told me he doesn't straighten anything. If one comes off the machine with bore such as mine they are scrapped right there. Which is the way to do it.

The thing that irritates me the most is I thought they had really got their act together on this design but it just goes to show you. Engineering is all well and good but if you don't watch it the production floor will kill your best efforts. This is not restricted to one manufacturer I can assure you.

We have become a nation of "that will get by" mentality I am afraid.
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