Gun Hub

Go Back   Gun Hub > Gun Forum > Rifles

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-07-2007, 05:54 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Posts: 492
1903 Cartouches from Hell!

I just had to share this. I just got done stripping down my new CMP RIA 1903 (SN 92234) and was pleasantly surprised to find 3 distinct Cartouches on the stock. They are a little faint, and I cannot get a good clear picture so I will do my best to discribe them to you all.

The first one is W.E.S. in a box (SA 191 right below the mag cutoff, the second one is S.A./S.P.G. in a box at an angle on the grip (SA rebuild 1936-1940) and the third is over the W.E.S. stamp, and is S.A./G.A.W. in a box with a corss cannon symbol (AS rebuild 1943-1944).

Also there are 3 proof marks on the bottom of the grip!

The reciever falls in the range of Rock Island 1903's that were not assembled at RIA (1919-1921?), and are difficult to distinguish from parts guns. The barrel is SA 5-18.

I suspect that this is what Harrison calls a Type 3 RIA 1903 rifle (Page 101 of his book) Any thoughts on this?
postal16 is offline  
Old 02-08-2007, 05:56 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: W. Washington
Posts: 2,446
Postal,

There is no particular mystery about your Rock Island 1903. I often think of the stock markings in the same way as you used to see those old steamer trunks with all the destination stickers!

If the stock is original to the last time the rifle was overhauled, the WES indicates the stock came from a Springfield 1903 from the 1918-1920 period - that is when the inspector (W.E. Strong) did most of his work (I also have a 1908 with the WES as well, however). The SA/SPG indicates another rebuild (and keep in mind, this is assuming that a former civilian owner didn't switch stocks) in the late 1930s or so. The SA/GAW proves yet ANOTHER rebuild about 1943-44 (this stamp appears on large numbers of M1 Garands - the period of heaviest production). Are the three Ps circled? They should be, if the rifle was rebuilt at SA.

The original receiver dates to about 1908. You may be confusing this with those Rock Island receivers that were left over when production of complete rifles ceased at Rock Island about mid-1919. They were in the 375,000-430,000 range, mostly.

Your rifle, I believe, was completed as an original RIA 1903. It was not a parts gun.

Some questions:

1) What is the barrel maker and date?

2) Bolt markings? Make sure to look on the safety lug as well as tp and bottom of the bolt handle where it joins the bolt body.

If you want to find out more about Rock Island 1903s, I would highly recommend C.S. Ferris' book Rock Island Rifle Model 1903. It is available from Scott Duff Publicatios and other sources. It is very complete and has numerous pictures. Harrison's book does have a number of errors. Note that he has drawings of RIA 1903s with of Rock Island Armory, not arsenal - that should give you some idea!
Rick the Librarian is offline  
Old 02-08-2007, 07:27 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Posts: 492
Correction SN 392234, I tend to tyoe too fast sometimes for my own good.

Yes all proof three marks are circled

The barrel is SA 5-18

I will look at the bolt when I get home from work!

I can always count on you Rick!
postal16 is offline  
Old 02-08-2007, 07:48 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: W. Washington
Posts: 2,446
I type too fast all the time!

Your rifle could be one of those shipped to SA as a receiver but it could have been finished as a complete rifle, too. The SA 5-18 barrel could have been taken from a scrapped receiver and fitted to your receiver. Or your rifle may have been completed as a full RIA and the 1918 barrel could have been fitted as a replacement during the 1930s rebuild or during WWII. The possibilities are endless!

Had it been a RIA in the 400,000 range, the chances of it being sent as a separate receiver would have been more conclusive. Most of those were fitted with SA barrels in the 1926-31 range. A 1918 sounds like a routine replacement to me of a worn out RIA barrel.
Rick the Librarian is offline  
Old 02-08-2007, 09:46 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Posts: 492
Just what I thought. The stock also is a SA stock based on the marks. I just thought it was cool having three seperate marks on this stock, and the wood is still tight and sound.

The gun was still heavily caked with Cosmoline when I got it, but now it is cleaned up. The stock looks great after being stripped to bare wood and reinvigorated with a few coats of BLO. Now I am debating if I should leave it as is, or seal it somehow. What do you think?

I am still cleaning carbon and copper from the bore too, and actually see rifling now. Still too early to see if any pitting exists, but that may be difficult without a borescope.
postal16 is offline  
Old 02-09-2007, 04:47 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: W. Washington
Posts: 2,446
I would leave it as-is after a few more thin BLO treatments (being careful to wipe off the excess after each treatment).

Any chance of pictures?
Rick the Librarian is offline  
Old 02-10-2007, 09:43 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Posts: 492
You ask and you shall receive!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DCP_1936.jpg (124.1 KB, 1044 views)
File Type: jpg DCP_1933.jpg (103.9 KB, 1045 views)
postal16 is offline  
Old 02-10-2007, 09:46 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Posts: 492
This close up shows just how crappy it looked before refinishing.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0220.JPG (88.0 KB, 1041 views)
postal16 is offline  
Old 02-10-2007, 10:07 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Posts: 492
BTW

2) Bolt markings?

Make sure to look on the safety lug

S 30 stamped on bottom of safety lug

as well as tp and bottom of the bolt handle where it joins the bolt body.

Proof Punch on the bottom, no marks on top
postal16 is offline  
Old 02-10-2007, 04:04 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: W. Washington
Posts: 2,446
The bolt dates to mid-1906 to mid-1908.
Rick the Librarian is offline  
Reply

  Gun Hub > Gun Forum > Rifles


Search tags for this page

1903 springfield cartouches

,
1903 springfield stock cartouches
,
1903 springfield stock markings
,

1903 springfield stock marks

,
springfield 1903 arsenal rebuild stamp
,

springfield 1903 cartouches

,
springfield 1903 stock cartouche
,

springfield 1903 stock cartouches

,

springfield 1903 stock markings


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
new stock cartouches? pattycakes77 M1 Garand 10 11-04-2007 03:38 AM
Cartouches bearcat6 M1 Carbine 1 03-08-2006 08:39 PM
Cartouches, stamps, etc. Guy B. Meredith M1 Garand 12 06-24-2005 06:35 PM
Help Identifying Cartouches O-UM12 M1 Garand 12 04-25-2005 04:47 PM
Lack of cartouches Student M1 Garand 4 02-24-2005 04:58 PM




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2002 - 2014 Gun Hub. All rights reserved.