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Old 12-10-2005, 05:44 AM   #1
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SA use of Douglas Barrels

Can anyone tell me when SA, Inc. first began to use Douglas heavy national match barrels?

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Cass
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Old 12-10-2005, 06:54 AM   #2
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I think they've been the standard option on the Supermatch since they began (Hart and Kreiger have been options).

Ty
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Old 12-11-2005, 10:39 AM   #3
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When did the Supermatch production start?

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Cass
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Old 12-11-2005, 12:55 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cass
When did the Supermatch production start?

Thanks,
Cass
Between 1975 and 1980.
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Old 12-11-2005, 02:58 PM   #5
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Bought my M1A super match in 1985 and it came with a Douglas heavy barrel. The orginal barrel was a good shooter, but it like many others have been shot out and replaced. If you are not replacing barrels you aren't shooting or having fun.
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Old 12-11-2005, 06:02 PM   #6
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Thank you!
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Old 12-13-2005, 01:33 PM   #7
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I'm pretty sure that the barrel that I bought that was pulled from a fellow club member's SA Supermatch was a Nelson Barrel. I'm going by what Gene Barnett told me after I described the barrel profile. I never asked him if SA had ever used any Barnett Barrels. Personally, I've never yet seen a Douglas M14 barrel, or seen that you could actually buy such an animal.

Danny
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Old 12-13-2005, 07:14 PM   #8
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Hook built several rifles for me in the early 90's using Douglas Barrels 6 groove 1 in 11 that I'm pretty sure he got from Nelson. I also remember watching barrels being chambered at Nelson's in Columbus in the early 90's and its my recollection they were Douglas barrels. I'm going to see Hook in a couple of weeks and I'm going to quiz him on the barrel history over at Nelson's. Be back with a definate answer then.
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Old 12-13-2005, 07:38 PM   #9
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Well, I'm surprised to find that they actually make M1 Barrels, which must be a new thing at Douglas, as I've searched and searched their site before and have never found either an M1 or an M14 Barrel, until now, but there is still no mention of any M14 Barrel on their site. I guess it doesn't matter if you can't get a Douglas M14 Barrel when you can get either a good Nelson or Barnett M14 Barrel.

Danny

http://www.benchrest.com/douglas/contours.html

They do seem to offer a duplicating service for $50.00. Maybe you could get a Douglas M14 Barrel by sending them one do duplicate, but then, maybe that's only for bolt gun barrels. It doesn't specify anything.
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Old 12-14-2005, 01:59 PM   #10
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Gas Gun,
I just talked with my Service Rifle buddy of many years who confirms that my memory was correct. He says the confusion may be that Douglas supplied barrel Blanks to Nelson and Barnett in the early 90's at least.They fininshed and chambered them . He reminded me that I had 2 guns built with 4 groove 1 in 10 barrels from Barnett back then for shooting 173gr bullets we got by the 1000's at Perry. He also remembers getting some Garand barrels from Barnett that were made from Douglas blanks. Again , I'll quiz Hook on this when I go to see him. Oh yea, when you mention Nelson , that is Glen Nelson , right?
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Old 12-14-2005, 07:42 PM   #11
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Yes, that's Glen Nelson down somewhere in Georgia, I think. Now you are getting it. A Douglas M14 barrel is only a Douglas M14 Barrel if Douglas did the finish work on a blank to turn it into a finished, useable M14 Barrel. If Douglas were to take a Krieger barrel blank and turn it into a finished M14 Barrel, it's a Douglas M14 Barrel.

When I described my Supermatch takeoff barrel contour to Gene Barnett over the phone, he knew immediately that it was a Nelson Barrel. I seem to think that the characteristics were a short barrel shank of the 1.100" nominal M1/M14 diameter, tapering down to 1.065" up to at least the op rod guide. I don't have my barrel in front of me, so I can't be more exact than that from memory. Gene Barnett on the heaviest M14 Barrel he makes, carries the 1.100" M1/M14 Shank Diameter out as far as possible, not stepping down like Nelson does. I think that the area by the gas cylinder, in the way that it steps down is likely different when made by each man, but I won't swear on it. I don't have a Barnett Barrel yet, nor do I have (as I mentioned before) my Nelson Supermatch Barrel in front of me.

Danny
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Old 12-15-2005, 07:20 AM   #12
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Any idea who's making SA's current National Match and Super Match barrels? Or, is it that they are made by Douglas or at least from Douglas blanks?
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Old 12-15-2005, 12:59 PM   #13
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If someone would look at their new heavy barrel, and check to see if it steps down below the shank diameter to roughly 1.065" approx. an inch or two ahead of the receiver face, it's likely a Nelson. I don't know much about him and if he's still active and turning barrels for SA. Likely, just by sheer numbers of blanks produced and by knowing what's been used on gas guns, likely the blank used would/could probably be Douglas or Wilson, but that's only a guess based on knowing that most production gas gun barrels on OEM guns have been Douglas Blanks or Wilson (in the case of M1 Rifles). I'm not sure if Wilson has been very active in the M14 Venue, but maybe someone else knows.

Danny
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Old 12-15-2005, 04:39 PM   #14
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Thanks.
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Old 12-15-2005, 05:02 PM   #15
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The commercial standard contour M1A barrels are and have been Wilson Arms blanks. Hillside Manufacturing (Dallas, PA) did the machining on these standard contour barrels until the end of the 1980s. Springfield Armory, Inc. took over the machining of the Wilson Arms standard contour barrel blanks after that. Why? Because Hillside Manufacturing was needed more and more as time went on for M1A receiver production.
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Old 12-15-2005, 07:36 PM   #16
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Different,
Do you know if Gene Barnett ever did any of the Springfield Armory Inc. Supermatch Barrels? When I talked to him some years ago regarding a matter on the barrel that I had, he asked me some questions about the contour, and confirmed that it sounded like a Nelson Barrel. I don't know if he ever did any for them, but his asking me questions about the contour almost makes me wonder if he may have.

This is all just speculation on my part, and I am probably totally wrong, but it's worth questioning.

Danny
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Old 12-16-2005, 01:16 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gas_gunner
Different,
Do you know if Gene Barnett ever did any of the Springfield Armory Inc. Supermatch Barrels? When I talked to him some years ago regarding a matter on the barrel that I had, he asked me some questions about the contour, and confirmed that it sounded like a Nelson Barrel. I don't know if he ever did any for them, but his asking me questions about the contour almost makes me wonder if he may have.

This is all just speculation on my part, and I am probably totally wrong, but it's worth questioning.

Danny
Danny,

Hillside Manufacturing used Wilson Arms barrel blanks to machine standard contour and heavyweight M1A barrels until the late 1980s. Also, Glenn Nelson built match grade M1A rifles for Springfield Armory, Inc. He or his employees machined the Douglas and Hart heavyweight barrels. Medium weight match grade barrels were supplied to him ready for installation.

Mr. Nelson built custom M1A rifles for SA, Inc. from the mid-1970s until at least 1993. AFAIK, Gene Barnett did not machine M14/M1A barrels for the firm SA, Inc. Individual gunsmiths have installed Barnett spun heavyweight barrels on M1A rifles. HTH
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Old 12-17-2005, 10:50 PM   #18
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I got my Supermatch in '77 and it has a Douglas barrel.
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Old 12-18-2005, 03:31 PM   #19
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I looked at a really great looking fully match conditioned M1A this weekend, but this guy thought he had a Douglas Barrel on it too, and I don't know how that can happen when he bought it new from a supplier. One look at the contour told me that it was a Barnett Barrel. After having used the Nelson Supermatch Barrel on my Armscorp M14, I feel that the Straight tube with no step down on the Barnett Contour can give less troubles when things aren't quite optimum with the way that the op rod and other parts are lined up. My op rod clips the bottom leading edge of the 1.5" or so 1.110" nominal dimension of the barrel shank as the op rod travels back. With the Barnett vs. the Nelson Supermatch, if it works and doesn't bind with the op rod in the forward position, likely, there will be no surprises at the back end of the travel like I have. Mine will now and again throw a casing out not quite far enough when the op rod clips the barrel shank. It's only an inconvenience on a single shot rifle, so I will wait to rebarrel it. Part of the trouble, or probably most of it is that the op rod guide is drilled slighty off of the centerline of the bore making fitting the op rod correctly really tough. I was going to make another precision machined one but had not enough time and will live with it till I smoke the barrel in a year or two. I'll put a Barnett on it after that.

Danny
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Old 12-21-2005, 08:32 AM   #20
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SA Douglas Barrels

I have a SA catalog that I got at the S.H.O.T. Show in Atlanta in 1982. I talked to the rep at their booth and they stated that all Super Match guns came equipped with a "Heavy Douglas Premium Air Gauged Barrel." That is what is listed in the catalog also. I have a SA Super Match from 1982 but the barrel is unmarked.

I do know that it sure does shoot!
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