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No Cartouche on the stock

8K views 5 replies 5 participants last post by  Hummer 
#1 ·
Gents,

I just received an M1 from CMP. It has a 5million serial number which does not bother me. I just wanted to own a real M1 Garand. I was surprised to find no cartouches on the stock. The weapon belonged to the Marine Corps according to the toe tag. Should there be some marking on the stock?
Respectfully,
 
#2 ·
Was it a Greek return?

Many of the replacement stocks don't have any cartouches on them.
Is it a fat post WWII stock? Is it Birch wood (light color) Beach wood that has little freckles in it, or Walnut. Or it could be that it has cartouches on it and you just can't see them until you clean it off real well. Theres always the possablity that the arsonal refinnished it and sanded them off as well.
If any of them remained tho it would be the pistol grip proof (P) they usually last the best I think.
 
#3 ·
You can always replace the stock with one that has appropriate markings if it bothers you. They don't always come cheap, however!

If you plan on shooting it a lot, you might be better off with a non-collectible on there anyway. Check around on the various boards and eBay to get an idea of what types of stamps to look for and how much they cost. Some of the WWII cartouched stocks cost a fortune these days, but you wouldn't need one of those anyway. The later DAS stocks would cost less.

There are plenty of knowledgable folks here who can help you if you need more info about your rifle. Just post some more info and/or pics of what you have.
 
#4 ·
The cartouche is only applied to orginal production weapons off the assembly line. The P would be a depot rebuild and indicate proofing after rework or if mushed/light remained after refinish. No P and no cartouche is a replacement stock and as indicated by others absolutely no problem.

Depot rebuilds were a sight to behold, the rifles come in by the hundreds/thousands and are disassembled. All the bolts in one bin, stocks, in one bid, gas cylinders in another bin, trigger groups in another bin and then each goes to their respective rebuild areas and get blasted and manganese phosphated prior to reassembly.

The DMWR (Depot Maintenance Work Regulation) we pronounced DIMWAR had the requirements for each part to meet to be pronounced still in spec and useable in the rebuild. Those that were not were trashed.

A large number of stocks were refinished to look new which removed the cartouche first pass on sanding buffer. The P was so heavy that they were mushed but still readable.

I have a DMWR for the M1 Carbine but not the Garand. It is about a inch thick.

Last I heard the M16 receivers are scrapped at the first depot rebuild as they no longer meet spec.

On the M1 of course millions of barrels were replaced due to the muzzle wear from cleaning rod if nothing else.

I am surprised some interprising individual has not had the cartouche reproduced to stamp every stock he saw making it original.

My friend said the guys would go to a gun show and they would take a Ordnance Bomb Proof stamp with them and stamp it on various rifles and give guys BS stories about how they were issued by gov't etc. He said they even stamped Arisakas with it. haha.

I suspect there are a number of those stamps around. With the technology we have today it would be easy but expensive to make perfect reproductions of the stamps.
 
#5 ·
The stock humpers have been stamping fake cartouches for years. I saw a bunch of humped stocks on the lower level at Tulsa the last couple of years. Same guy I think. I also saw some guy on the upper level (aisle 32-34 somewhere in there I think) who had the set of stamps to do it.

As for the M16 receivers, are you saying the M16 and M16A1 lower receivers are junked everytime they come through for rebuild? Or do you mean the upper receivers? Uppers maybe, but not the lowers. I've seen and fired lots of M16A2's that were rebuilt A1 lower receivers. I've seen Colt, H&R, Hydra-Matic and all were M16A1 lowers originally. They simply replaced the fire control parts, put an A2 stock on it, ground off the auto and stamped burst over it, stamped a 2 over the 1 in A1, and put the Fire, Semi and Burst on the right side of the receiver. Of course, they replaced the upper receiver with an A2. Whalla, instant M16A2.
 
#6 ·
Woops I left out the numbers. He told me 40% of lower receivers are scrapped out. I asked him the failure and he said the hammer pivot pin and trigger pin holes get elongated and the sear geometry is changed.

That correlated with a observation I made at Ft. Jackson when I was touring and there was an ordnance maintenance van at the back of the firing line and kids were being sent over when M16 malfunctioned.
I asked the armorer what he was seeing and he said the hammers were following the striker down and failed to sear up. They were staking the receivers to keep the pins tight to keep them going.

M16 lowers are hard coated in kind of a case hardening process and they still wear. I can't speak for the after market lowers of whether they are hard or not. That is why I won't even consider a used AR unless I am sure I know the history on it.

The inspection at Deport Rebuild consists of a four sided diamond shaped gage and it is rotated slightly to see if it will go into hole. If it does the receiver is scrapped.

He also told me there were lots of uppers scrapped.

I know the lowers are good for 12,000 rounds as I tested them that long. Then again all ours were properly lubricated. I suspect the ones in sand box are being eaten alive so to speak.

I have no idea of the upper round limit of lower receivers but for sure they will not take as many rounds as a bolt gun.

I know a guy that has shot out 12 barrels on a pre 64 Model 70 and headspace has only grown .001". At that rate I estimate a pre 64 is good for maybe 50 barrels.
 
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