While digging through my archive storage, I found my Saginaw SG Micro-Film Blue-Prints from the old Saginaw SG Plant in Saginaw, Michigan. I also found a large box of new books, which are "Authors Signed Editions", of various military rifles....(M14, M-1 Garand, M1 Carbine, SKS, British Enfields, M-97 Trench Guns, etc). No telling what else I have stored away, and hidden away there? Thought I sold all the books, years ago?? These below micro-film prints were saved from the actual SG wartime micro-film that was almost destroyed many years ago, from the dumpersters. I thought the "AMBACK Membership" would greatly appreciate these (2) below photos. These are the only known, nearly complete set of surviving, actual Engineering Drawings, from the WW-2 Production of the Saginaw SG U.S. M-1 Carbines. I know of no other manufacturers blueprints, other than those at the Buffalo Bill Cody Museum, of a few IP guns that still exist today, or the Springfield Armory Museum. These blueprints number very few at the museums, and are not anywhere near the complete volume as these Saginaw prints are. The left side of the photos are the actual Saginaw Engineering Drawings of the parts to be manufactured. The right Side of the prints are the Tools and Tool numbers to be used and how to manufacture each part by dimensions and the gauges used from raw steel. These prints could nearly manufacture all of the parts Saginaw manufactured as they are nearly complete and in tact. This , of course, will NEVER happen while they are in my possession. No brag fellows...just facts! Enjoy, Guys!!! On another note, I must also thank "Amback" as well as Fernando, and the Moderators..... for setting up this unique photo system, where we can pull photos from our own computers, without the assistance of a photo hosting service. Sure makes posting our photos, in a much more convenient fashion, IMHO!

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Bolo-7

Are they ink on paper?

Yes, it was some kind of a black ink copier they used for micro-film run off's, on an old WW-2 type light copier / printing machine. Don't remember the name of it. The copies are much like todays "Xerox" copies, or appear to be as such. From what I understand...Micro-film is fed into this machine, on a roll and it progresses each frame at a time. It can be stopped at a selected frame and a copy made. There were some type of heated wires, as ghe explained it, that lit up in the machine for copies. The sheets are 6 1/4" wide x 17 " long. The machine was so old, that after these and other prints were made, off the film, (now also in storage)..it finally burned out. Maybe someone here on the form, who has copy machine experience, can explain this better?

VBAtog

Out of what you have there are there any index sheets, such as a complete drawing of the rifle, with various parts labeled? Any idea how something like that may look up on a wall? I know at various gun stores around me you see blueprint "posters" on the wall of Glocks, SKS', or various other guns. Would be kind of interesting to have something like that for a gun I actually own.

Anything on the chamber of the barrel Marine 1? I sure would like to see the dimensions if you have them.

Yes, I have a few full stock prints as final assembled. None are "labeled". These blue-prints are on the tolerances and guages used to make each part by operation number. The hammer, bolt and recoil plate blueprints show the SG coding. After examining all the receiver prints, I find they are complete to manufacture a SG receiver today, exactly as the original, for which these same prints were used from 1943-1944. I also have all the SG barrel prints to manufacture an SG barrel today, also. Did not realize this until I started looking into what I have here, that I found in storage. darn..I have enough prints here to manufacture a SG Receiver and Barrel. Haven't looked at all the rest of the prints, yet? Wonder what else is here???

Yes Wayne, I have the chamber tolerances. I have (2) scanners...and would you believe both are in the fritz? Darn, one is a brand new fax, printer and scanner. When I get it up and going I'll PM you the print on the chamber tolerances.

Here's the chamber photo, and tolerances Wayne.....let me know if this is what you were looking for?? I could not downsize it, as the nomenclature would not be readible in the photo.

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No darn it, I already know how long it's supposed to be. What I can't find ANYWHERE, is the acceptable diameter of the chamber, and whether it is tapered or not. Your picture does NOT show any taper however, so perhaps it isn't, as I suspect? If you have more info, with or without pics I would appreciate it, as this has been bugging me for years. I'm not concerned with headspacing or length, but with the dimensions of the chamber itself, and what is or is not acceptable. Can't find any Ordnance tools for this either, but it has to be a concern to someone, somewhere!

This should do it for you!! Can't get any plainer than this print of the breech. Check your email for the photo. Photo is large to post here!

fubar

all i can say is holy crap. what some gunmakers would pay to have that kind of detailed information.

Thanks Marine 1, I'll check it out, and I appreciate the help!

I quite agree, fubar! The most difficult parts of the carbine to manufacture were the Receiver and the Barrel. These historical blue-prints are quite valuable. They would surely put every aftermarket carbine to shame as to quality and engineering, as they were designed to meet strict ordnance specifications for combat. More than likely, these priints are the same design for all the World War 2 Carbine manufacturers, who made the U.S. M-1 Carbine Rifle, as all parts of each manufacturer were certainly inter-changable. They certainly are of the Inland (Saginaw Division) design, and more than likely came from the Winchester and Inland designs, (after the phase out of the spring tube design), who were the first two carbines to be manufactured.

As the one you sent me about the barrel is dated 2-28-44 revision date, it would place these, if of the same period, late into Saginaws production, incorporating many of the manufacturing improvements? I have some receiver blueprints for the M14, purportedly Ordnance prints. Think they are worth anything?

If they are USGI Ordnance.... heck, yes, Wayne. How many do you have?? There are Military Museums around the country that would love to get my prints, probably yours, too? Would be great to find some interested parties to manufacture the SG Receiver and Barrel again, and mark it as.......... Edition #2. Surely would not be a "commercial" dubbed up receiver and barrel, and meets US Ordnance 1943-1944 specifications. I would think yours too, depending on how many you have?? In any case, you have what nobody else has! They are highly collectible, I would also think? M14 prints are very valuable, I would think?? Remember the Smith Enterprises M14 receiver?? They laughed at it when they came out on the market! Now a Smith Enterprises Receiver is worth mega$$$$$. Go figure! Hang onto them!

7161843

Any chance of getting copies of the prints?

PA28R200

3m made a copy machine matching this description it was called a thermofax, but did not come out till 1950. The other system from earlier times was refered to as DIAZO. ALL springfield master drawings were done on linnen with ink untill about 1950. If you see the old prints made from them the weave will show up in the print.

SpecialEd

You guys realize this thread is over seven years old right?

PA28R200

the newest post are quite recent, and i thought i had the answer to the question, plus i am new here. If you wish i will stop putting my 2c worth. Have done only 4 postings i think.

TommyGunn

No one wants you to go away! You're welcome here.
It's just that threads that old usually represent matters that have either been solved or resolved somehow, or are just no longer relevant.
But don't take it as unfriendliness. All nice guys are welcome here!