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Old 05-15-2017, 05:57 PM   #1
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Kahr M1 Replica - STUBBORN trigger housing

Got my hands on a Kahr (or Auto-Ordinance, I guess) M1A1 Carbine replica. Fantastic...until, during disassembly for cleaning/oiling, I got to the trigger housing. The trigger housing pin absolutely REFUSES to come out by hand. I ended up using a rounded tool (sorry, don't know the name, but it basically just has a flat nose), (I know this will make some folks retch) and tapping it with a hammer. [Here's a part in a disassembly video of how, I assume, it is supposed to come out. Look how easily he takes it out! Mine won't budge by hand.] I know hammers are verbotten, but I seriously felt I had no choice. I also ended up having to use it to get the rear part of the assembly to detach as well. Notice in that video how the rest of the housing just falls out? Mine, again WILL NOT budge by hand. I spent 45 minutes on these two aspects of the disassembly and worked up a hell of a sweat, as well as one hell of a temper. I had to use the hammer on the front of the housing to get it to get out, and to put it back in. I'm not the strongest person in the world, but I do work a job high in physical labor so I really should not be having issues with this I feel.

So anybody familiar with a problem like this? Any ideas for how I should go about doing this part of the disassembly next time without acting like a caveman?

Also, I noticed when re-assembling that no matter what I did, the top part of the heat guard doesn't fit 100% even. As far as I can tell I get it in perfectly square, but by the time I get done tightening the barrel band, it sticks out a little bit on the left side and is pretty noticeable when you're holding it. I don't know that it's a fatal issue but it, of course, just ain't quite right. I'm newer to firearms so I probably am a bit over my head with an old style rifle like this, but thankfully the internet exists with people much smarter than me
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Old 05-16-2017, 03:49 AM   #2
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The tool you had to use is called a punch, and it's not uncommon at all to have to use one in disassembling firearms, especially new ones where everything is still tight. Punches come in many materials: brass, steel, and nylon are probably the most common. You should always use the softest one that will get the job done.

Gunsmithing hammers typically feature a two-sided head, with one side being brass and one nylon. Both hammers and punch sets can be had for fairly reasonable prices, and if you intend to learn more about firearms and their workings you might consider investing in a set.

Sorry, I can't help much with the heat shield issue; pictures would help.
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Old 05-16-2017, 01:53 PM   #3
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Punch tool! That's what it's called. Yes I've got a set, and one that is the perfect size for the housing. I don't have a gunsmithing hammer though, is one really nylon? I don't think I've ever seen that before. Sounds like a good idea though, I'm sure Amazon has something like that on their site. Probably better than the big old nail smashing hammer I was using huh? I was told 'you can use youtube to learn how to disassemble but if you see a hammer, close the window because you don't need that when dealing with firearms'. And seeing in all those other vids how the housing pin simply fell out I thought something may be off with mine. But it's good to know there's proper gunsmithing hammers.

I can upload some pics with the heatshield a little later (I sort of have to hide my firearms from one aloof member of the household who is superstitious about them so I generally only take them apart at night or on the weekend when they're working.) It will probably be hard to see since it's a subtle thing but I'll give it a shot.
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Old 05-16-2017, 02:31 PM   #4
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Old 05-16-2017, 03:40 PM   #5
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A USGI WWII M1 Carbine would easily come apart even when new because it was designed to be disassembled and maintained in the field with only the Carbine itself and a cartridge as tools.

The process was to use a cartridge case to unscrew the barrel band screw (note how the screw head is cut to allow this) and then use the recoil spring guide to push out the trigger group pin if it even needed any help coming out.
The trigger group would then slip out of the receiver.

That was with a GI milled M1 Carbine built to very strict government specifications.
Commercial Carbines are not necessarily built to the same standards and the receiver and trigger group are usually cast metal.

It's not uncommon for the trigger group pin to be tight.
First step is to test fit the pin through the just the trigger guard holes to see if that's whats tight, then test fit the pin through just the receiver hole.
Then check to see if the receiver and trigger guard holes are slightly misaligned.

So, either just use the rifle and disassemble with a small hammer and punch until the parts loosen up, or you can use fine wet or dry sand cloth to very slightly reduce the diameter of the trigger guard pin.
You "could" enlarge the holes in the receiver and if necessary the trigger guard, but the gunsmith rule is to work on the part that's easiest and cheapest to replace.
USGI trigger guard pins are easily and cheaply available.

Next issue is the tight fit of the trigger guard to the receiver.
Again, this is common on commercial Carbines.
And again, you can simply use a padded hammer to tap the trigger guard off the receiver until it eventually loosens up, or you can use a small flat file like a spark plug file to gently remove just a little metal from the trigger guard "T" that slips into the rear lugs of the receiver.

With the trigger guard in place look to see if you can detect where it's too tight and remove just a little metal from that part of the trigger guard.

The lugs will simply snap off and if you botched filing the receiver you can't replace it as cheaply or easily as you can get a new trigger guard.

As for hammers, every gunsmith has a variety of types and sizes of hammers and use them daily during disassembly of most modern guns.
Usually military design guns need no hammers to disassemble.
I recommend going to any hardware store and buying a small hammer with a plastic face.
Some have a soft plastic side and a hard plastic side.
To prevent damage to the parts, buy a appropriate size brass or nylon punch, often called a "drift".
You can buy these from Brownell's for a few dollars:

World's Largest Supplier of Firearm Accessories, Gun Parts and Gunsmithing Tools - BROWNELLS
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Old 05-17-2017, 02:15 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by dfariswheel View Post
...but the gunsmith rule is to work on the part that's easiest and cheapest to replace.
This is the little tidbit of knowledge I learned today. It should be so obvious, but...
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Old 05-17-2017, 07:15 PM   #7
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The pin stuck most likely because they assembled it too soon after parkerizing and a bit of rust built up in the hole. If the pin has no visible rust, then the hole is slightly undersized. The fix is to take 400 grit sandpaper and thin the pin so that it fits in a manner more conducive to easy disassembly. As for the rear section, it needs to be narrowed with a file. Go very slow with the file, and take your time until you get the fit you desire.
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