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Old 10-13-2004, 04:32 PM   #1
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Stripper clips

I've had several members ask questions about the Carbine stripper clips, so here is a picture and explanation. The clip extends after loading ten rounds into it, and attaches to the back of the magazine. You then push the rounds down into the mag, and take the clip off the mag. They should have made them for 15 rounds, but they didn't. Without the charger attachment, they are very difficult if not impossible to use. Shown, are non-extended clip, extended clip, and attached to a 15 round mag:

 
Old 10-13-2004, 07:44 PM   #2
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WayneCPO1; do you know when stripper clips were first issued? The fact that they are 10 rnds makes me think they were used for the M-2 carbine with 30 rnd mags, which means very end of WW2 to me.
I've never seen any WW2 related movie/documentary etc. which show the use of stripper clips, and although I now have some, I only recently became aware of them. I don't know anything about their history.
Thanks.
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Old 10-13-2004, 10:52 PM   #3
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No I don't TommyGunn, but I would like to know also. I wonder if Bill Ricca knows? I never paid much attention to where they came from, or why. The ones I have now came from bandoleers marked LC 13056. I'm not sure who packed the bandoleers either, anybody know? Perhaps this is where the stripper clips and ammo came together? I do know they are very handy when loading mags, as they go right in without beating up the fingers!
 
Old 10-13-2004, 11:04 PM   #4
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you'd think they would make 15rd strippers for the 15rd mags. Maybe 10rd strippers were all that would fit in the standard ammo cans?
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Old 10-14-2004, 08:07 AM   #5
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Yes, they were developed for the 30 round M2 mags late in WWII. The earliest ones had the case feed attached to them. Later on they eliminated that and just put one detatchable unit per ammo bandolier. It made production far less expensive. Both types are still readily available.
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Old 10-14-2004, 08:12 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayneCP01
No I don't TommyGunn, but I would like to know also. I wonder if Bill Ricca knows? I never paid much attention to where they came from, or why. The ones I have now came from bandoleers marked LC 13056. I'm not sure who packed the bandoleers either, anybody know? Perhaps this is where the stripper clips and ammo came together? I do know they are very handy when loading mags, as they go right in without beating up the fingers!
I bought a "bandoleer kit" for $10 at a gun show last year. It included one bandoleer, 12 one piece stripper clips with chargers, and 6 cardboards. Mine is marked LC 13328 which I assume (I know, don't assume anything!) means Lake City and the lot number. The bandoleer is also marked "Harian C, July 195_." The last digit in the date is missing, although the rest of the date is clearly stamped. Maybe it was supposed to be filled in at a later time while being packed? My brother (US Army retired) thinks they were packed in ammo cans, and the one I bought was just part of what was left after the ammo had been used. Other vendors were asking as much as $2 each for the strippers alone.
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Old 10-15-2004, 01:59 AM   #7
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They were still in development in 1946. The first style was produced in quantity after the Korean War. The second style which has a separate loader guide (like the M16) are just prior to the Vietnam Era.
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Old 10-16-2004, 02:39 AM   #8
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See, I told you Bill would know! Thank you Bill, I've always wondered about them as the 10 round capacity only makes sense for the 30 rounders. What I don't understand, is if the 15 round mags were considered "disposable", as some have put forth, then why bother with stripper clips? Why not just load new mags? If they were made strictly for the 30 rounders, which weren't considered "disposable", then it makes sense.
What USGI and his brother state makes sense also, except for the $2 each part! I guess if mags are $15-$20 now, there's no reason why stripper clips shouldn't go up too.
 
Old 10-16-2004, 08:47 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USGI
...............My brother (US Army retired) thinks they were packed in ammo cans.........
I may be wrong, but I think I remember some clipped & bandoleered carbine ammo being packed in spam cans. This may have been done during the 50s or 60s.

It would be interesting to ask a vet that carried one in WWII how the ammo was packed and issued in theater, when the 15 round mags were all that was used.
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Old 10-16-2004, 02:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
What I don't understand, is if the 15 round mags were considered "disposable", as some have put forth, then why bother with stripper clips? Why not just load new mags? If they were made strictly for the 30 rounders, which weren't considered "disposable", then it makes sense
Disposable? Yes and no. Disposable during combat activity, it is called a combat loss. During training stateside, no, all equipment is accounted for. The only exception would be damage. A damaged magazine would be replaced.

The idea of a stripper clip is to take the boxed ammo and pre-load it in stripper clips. This is done before an action/patrol/mission, in the rear area. When in the heat of combat you don't want to have to break ammo out of boxes to load one round at a time.

I have some documentation on the development. I will make a separate post early next week.
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Old 10-16-2004, 04:54 PM   #11
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I bought a bag of 50 strippers and chargers for $25 on the web. They are loaded and packed away in my "bug out bag"
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Old 10-16-2004, 05:17 PM   #12
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Ben, now you need a bunch of bandoliers to put them in! *LOL* It never ends!
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Old 10-16-2004, 06:20 PM   #13
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Fred's has bandoliers and stripper clips, though they seem a bit pricey, if you are looking for them. Anyone know of another source?
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Old 10-18-2004, 08:39 PM   #14
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My Dad was a Rifleman in Korea with E 2/179th 45th ID. One of his favorite weapons is the M2. I asked him if he had ever seen Carbine ammo loaded on stripper clips in Korea. He said that he had not.
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Old 10-18-2004, 11:04 PM   #15
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Hey Sukebe, if it isn't too much trouble, can you ask him how they got ammo? Loose, or pre-loaded mags? I would sure like to know little details like that, and also why many didn't like the M2? I sure liked mine, but never had to use them in combat or adverse conditions like they had over there. Any info he would like to share with us would be greatly appreciated, as most we receive is negative about the M2 in Korea.
 
Old 10-22-2004, 08:10 AM   #16
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After reading this thread, I called my dad who served in the 65th Combat Engineering Battalion, 25th Division during Korea as a new 2nd LT. He later worked in the Army Security Agency during Vietnam and retired in 1968 at a LT. Col. He said that he, along with most other line officers, were issued a M2 Carbines in Korea with several 30 round magazines, although at first, they only had 15 round pouches for their belts. He remembers always having to load his own magazines from 50 round boxes of ammo. He never saw stripper clips. Ironically, he said that after several weeks of combat that the "son of a B**** M1 carbine just wouldn't always kill the guys he was shooting at." He then traded his M1 Carbine in for a Garand. He said that that round always did its job. In Vietnam, he was issued a .45 1911 pistol, but he preferred carrying an additional pump shotgun. I thought you all would find this info interesting.
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Old 10-22-2004, 11:03 AM   #17
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That seems to be the consensus of opinion when the Carbine was used as a main battle weapon, for which it was never intended. It was only supposed to give greater range than the .45 auto pistol for support-type troops, who wouldn't be carrying the very heavy Garand along with ammo and other heavy items. It was always a compromise, hence the higher capacity so as to put more rounds into a "target". Two or three .30 Carbine rounds have to equal one .30-06!
What I can't see, is where the .223 round is much of an improvement over the .30 Carbine, and has to have much less stopping power than the .308 or .30-06. It seems to me, everyone is always looking for the "magic caliber" that can do everything. Unfortunately, there is no such thing, and each caliber has its good and bad points. I still think the M14 was the best main battle rifle we ever developed, and moving down in caliber to make our NATO allies happy, with both pistols & rifles, was a bad idea. I wonder what your Dad thought of the .223 round JP64?
 
Old 10-25-2004, 07:40 AM   #18
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Some more info on my father's war weapons... In January of 1950 his unit moved to some Quonset huts on Okinawa. The combat construction unit that had just vacated the huts had previously been on Guadalcanal after WW 2 helping out with the rebuilding process. A couple of days after my father took up residence, he and another officer found two Thompson Sub Machine guns in an overhead compartment that had been left by the previous unit. My dad and the other officer each kept one and started carrying them. The only problem that he had is that he only had two magazines and they were hard to come by at the time. After moving to Korea, he ran into a Canadian officer who really wanted to get his hands on the weapon. My dad ended up trading his Thompson to the officer for a case of Canadian Scotch. What a great trade that would be today!! I asked him about the M16 round. He said that he was never issued one and he saw limited combat in Vietnam (although he was in Saigon during the Tet offensive). Being in the ASA he mostly dealt with POW's etc. He was also a LT COL by then and so was only issued a .45. The shotgun he got from another officer who was going stateside. He used to keep it in his jeep when they were tooling around the countryside. My grandfather used to send him buckshot in the mail because the paper shotguns shells had a limited shelf life because of the humidity. I have another friend who was in the 101 Airborne in 1970 and was incountry for a year in combat. I will see him this weekend for the opening of the muzzle loading season here in VA. I will get his comments on the M16.
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Old 10-25-2004, 08:17 AM   #19
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FWIW, I agree that there is no 'magic' caliber, however, that said, the .223/5.56 is a full step-up from the .30 Carbine in terms of effectiveness. As we all know from High School Physics-----do the math yourselves----Energy (E)=Mass (M) times Velocity (V) squared. Accordingly, the critical component becomes Velocity, and that is precisely where the .223/5.56 "shines" and results (relative to the .30 Carbine) in a much more effective cartridge:

.30 Carbine (110 gr @ 1900 fps)=397 Ergs
.223/5.56 (55 gr. @ 3200 fps)=563 Ergs
.30-06 (150 gr. @ 2600 fps)=1,014 Ergs

As you can see from the above, Wayne is absolutely right about "2-3 .30 Carbine rounds equaling a 30.06".

I suspect, too, the relative importance of the Velocity component is precisely why the Soviets/Russians adopted the 5.45 x 39 cartridge for the AK-74, in place of their 7.62 x 39 for the AK-47----going for 'lighter and quicker' instead of 'bigger and slower' in terms of ammunition performance.

I'm a Carbine afficionado----it's fun to shoot----a great plinker round and tin can killer----but an effective man-stopper, in FMJ, it is not.
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Old 10-25-2004, 02:49 PM   #20
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I agree CBR, and I take physics and ballistics into account when making outrageous statements like that. I will never understand why the US military would want a 55 grain bullet, no matter how fast it goes, to replace a 150-165 grain one. With a 110 grain bullet, the Carbine has twice the mass of the .223, and is much slower, kind of like the .45 auto versus 9mm. I am old-fashioned when it comes to firearms, the bigger the hole in the end of the barrel, the better! However, weight MUST accompany these bigger holes, or the recoil makes them useless for a second shot if nothing else. I just can't understand the military thinking when it comes to stopping power, and switching over to the .223 and 9mm seem to be a poor compromise. I thought so then, and haven't changed my mind since. The .223 is a great varmint round, but at 55 grains, not much of a bullet for man-sized targets. The .308 versus .30-06 made sense, for the shorter round with very similar ballistics and the same bullets. I know this argument has been raging for many years, but I am not of the "Spray & Pray" mindset, and still believe big and slow will stop large targets better than small and fast. Ask any African safari hunter. There's my two cents, and you can like it or else! Otherwise, I'll pull out the Barret and show you. :P Seriously, I know the .223 has more range than the Carbine, but not stopping power in their effective ranges, which is apples & oranges.
 
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