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Old 01-04-2015, 11:23 AM   #1
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Newbie carbine owner

Howdy all. I live in Seaside Oregon. I have two carbines, one a National Postal Meter and the other a Universal. I am presently refitting my NPM with NPM parts. My NPM has an Underwood Barrel 10-43, a NPM Bolt with NPM parts, NPM slide, NPM slide spring guide, NPM Stock marked Trimble Tn. with the NPM cartouche on right rear of stock, hand guard marked TN. Recoil plate marked n?.
I am joining this forum to learn more about my gun and yours too and shop for NPM parts.

Thanks, Tom
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Old 01-04-2015, 02:09 PM   #2
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Welcome aboard.

I am afraid you've entered a tough field of collecting because so many of the carbines around today are mixmasters. I have a good friend who is a true carbine fiend and he can bust almost anyone's bubble by showing them what's wrong with a gun they want.

good luck
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Old 01-04-2015, 02:53 PM   #3
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Agreed with Charlie...
I extended the welcome aboard and waves hello from the beautiful Orygun coast ( I see ur a coastie also).
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Old 01-04-2015, 07:39 PM   #4
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Welcome Magnafique, I live in the valley not too far from you, and I have a few M1 carbines, don't worry too much about all the proper parts, Charlie told it like it is. The best thing about those guns is how fun they are to shoot.
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Old 01-05-2015, 05:38 AM   #5
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According to Some Reports...

...It was not uncommon for WWII GI's to swap some of the smaller parts in their Carbines in a quest for better trigger "pulls" - much as was done with revolvers sent back to Colt and S&W for "trigger jobs."

Then there was replacement of parts by unit armorers and arsenals as the Carbines went through various repairs and upgrades...

Thus, while collectors often value what they believe to be the configuration of a Carbine as it left the factory, most of the guns developed as legitimate individual histories as all of us have developed since the delivery room.
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Old 01-05-2015, 07:12 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Petty View Post
Welcome aboard.

I am afraid you've entered a tough field of collecting because so many of the carbines around today are mixmasters. I have a good friend who is a true carbine fiend and he can bust almost anyone's bubble by showing them what's wrong with a gun they want.

good luck
Yeah it's a tough field because there's no such thing as "right". NPM may have made a number of internal parts, but they didn't always come from the factory with those parts. They came with what as on hand. So someone could have a rifle that's all mix match parts, but if the barrel date is within 2 years of the receiver date, and the finish matches (and you can determine that the finish is original), then THAT's an original gun, regardless of which parts are on the gun.

It's exceptionally rare to find an "all original" gun that has all the makers parts, that's just not how they were built in WW II.

If you can find NPM parts that match your finish well, then it will look right.
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Old 01-05-2015, 08:27 AM   #7
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Newbie Carbine Owner

Thanks for the replies all. I bought this gun about 10 years ago at an Oklahoma Gun Show. It came with a replica folder stock with USGI steel on it. So basically you are saying that the real value is in completely original carbines or nearly original is where the value is at? If that is true I will end my quest to out fit this one with NPM stamped parts. I am going to need another barrel in the future. The S/N on my receiver is 4106xxx and the barrel is an Underwood marked 10/43. I have a gas leak at the piston nut due to loose threads. The piston and nut are new. I took it to a welder to weld up a small crack near the clean out hole. He advised me to clean out the piston chamber real well which I have done and then while slowly screwing in the piston nut apply red thread locker in the clean out hole to fill up the threads, then let it sit barrel tip up for 24 hours. I haven't fired it yet but plan to this week weather permitting. The recoil spring is new. My Gunsmith fired it several times and it fails to return the slide all of the way back to catch the next round in the magazine. He attributes this to gas leaking past the threads. Thanks much for you help. Magnafique
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Old 01-05-2015, 08:42 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnafique
So basically you are saying that the real value is in completely original carbines or nearly original is where the value is at? If that is true I will end my quest to out fit this one with NPM stamped parts.
I think the point is just what constitutes "original." Kevin Gibson (who know A LOT about this subject) pointed out that most if not all carbines were somewhat of the "mixmaster" persuasion even when they were brand new.
IIRC when firearms were issued and used in the field, they were stripped and cleaned in barrels of cleaner fluid, then all the parts were reassembled without regard to manufacturer. So there you have other mixmastermagic happening. At the end of WW2 carbines underwent arsenal refits. Cleaning, repairing, uprating.... a lot of early "flip" type rear sights were changed to the adjustable type, and, there was more than one type of adjustable sight.

I suppose if one could find an "original condition" carbine that could be proved real it would have that much more value to some collectors. Is that going to make it shoot better?

What is value? I mean, it is different things to different people.

I have a M1 carbine that my father brought back from the Korean War. It has the early "L" flip type rear sight. The 2nd type front barrel band. It's an Inland with a "2-44" on the barrel. I myself changed out the magazine release button for the M-2 catch to use 30 rnd. mags better, other than that (and the sling which is a modern repro as is the oiler; I added both) it is in the condition it was in when my father brought it back from Korea.
Is it "original condition??"

Dunno. Don't care. It works ...and it is a nice heirloom -- which is its value to me.

Last edited by TommyGunn; 01-05-2015 at 08:45 AM.
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Old 01-05-2015, 02:37 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnafique View Post
Thanks for the replies all. I bought this gun about 10 years ago at an Oklahoma Gun Show. It came with a replica folder stock with USGI steel on it. So basically you are saying that the real value is in completely original carbines or nearly original is where the value is at? If that is true I will end my quest to out fit this one with NPM stamped parts. I am going to need another barrel in the future. The S/N on my receiver is 4106xxx and the barrel is an Underwood marked 10/43. I have a gas leak at the piston nut due to loose threads. The piston and nut are new. I took it to a welder to weld up a small crack near the clean out hole. He advised me to clean out the piston chamber real well which I have done and then while slowly screwing in the piston nut apply red thread locker in the clean out hole to fill up the threads, then let it sit barrel tip up for 24 hours. I haven't fired it yet but plan to this week weather permitting. The recoil spring is new. My Gunsmith fired it several times and it fails to return the slide all of the way back to catch the next round in the magazine. He attributes this to gas leaking past the threads. Thanks much for you help. Magnafique
This is a tough question, about value. There are those who will attribute greater value to a rifle that has all NPM parts. Those are the people who think NPM carbines came with all NPM parts; they didn’t. Then there are those who are looking for an “original condition” Carbine, and those people all have their idea what “original” is.

M1 Carbines hold value pretty well regardless of configuration. Will your NPM have more value with NPM parts, probably.

But understand that M1 Carbines were made with parts from about 40 different subcontractors, and ALL of the manufacturers used parts from those subcontractors. So that begs the question, what is “original”? To be true, most any configuration M1 Carbine from first models to first arsenal upgrade could be “original”. A true “original” M1 Carbine will have all of the original Parkerized finish, and can have most any combination of parts. Any rifles made before mid 1943 should have the flip up sights, push button safety, first or second model magazine catch, flat bolt, non-bayo lug barrel band, first style recoil shield, flip up rear sight, flat bottom stock, etc. From mid-late 1943 it could include any of the parts found on the first arsenal upgrade, as well as original parts. (second style magazine catch, lever style safety, late style firing pin, second style recoil shield, second style hammer, second style slide, machined fully adjustable rear sight, bayo lug barrel band, etc).

To know what is what, pick up a copy of the M1 Carbine Technical Manual (TM9-1276) : http://www.90thidpg.us/Reference/Man...-1276_1947.pdf

The manual has very good photos and descriptions of each part, early/late, etc. and explains the differences (things like early hammer springs had 22 coils, later ones had 26 coils, etc).

So regarding value, there are the “collectors” who will be in the market for an “all original” NPM with all the NPM parts. They either don’t understand that there never really was such a thing, or they’re just willing to just agree amongst themselves that an all NPM parts NPM Carbine is “correct”. M1 Carbine collectors are a strange bunch.
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Old 01-06-2015, 09:42 PM   #10
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M! carbine newbie

Thanks Tommy Gun, and Kevin. A couple of days ago I purchased a 248 page book entitled United States .30 caliber field guide for collectors. I have the manual you suggested Kevin.

Again thanks,

Magnafique
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