Gun Hub

Go Back   Gun Hub > Battle Rifles > M1 Carbine

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-18-2005, 04:25 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Maine
Posts: 236
National Ordnance: Comercial or GI?

Ran across a National Ordnance carbine tonight. Receiver and trigger group are both National Ord, rear sight has a PI stamp. Unable to find a mark on the barrel, front sight or barrel band during my brief look. Slide had a M on the bottom. Looks like someone tried to cold blue the receiver, they also filled the sling cutout in the stock and added a rubber recoil pad. Front sight is missing the protective "ears" on each side, slide lock doesn't hold. Ser# is 200XXX. Any idea of a value, or if its worth putting a bit of $ into to clean it up for a "shooter"? Think I can get it for $250 - $275. Suggestions or ideas?
1st Maine is offline  
Old 02-18-2005, 04:27 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NW Florida
Posts: 6,793
Commercial, & not very highly regarded, IIRC.
Quagmire is offline  
Old 02-18-2005, 04:28 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Upper Midwest
Posts: 1,975
National Ordnance is a commercial copy, and, not necessarily one of the better ones. A problem with some of the commercial copies is obtaining parts, esp. in those situations where non-USGI parts are required.

I suspect that others on this Forum might be able to tell you more about them.
ChairborneRanger is offline  
Old 02-18-2005, 05:05 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Maine
Posts: 236
Thanks for the quick responses! I'll pass on this one, want to stick with the GI from now on.
1st Maine is offline  
Old 02-18-2005, 09:34 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 942
While it is a commercial copy, it DOES use USGI parts just fine. (I have one.) I just replaced the slide, front and rear sights with USGI parts. (Mine doesn't have the lock. ) The barell is non-USGI, but should hopefully be replaceable with one. However, all other parts should easily be replaceable by USGI.
WOuldn't pay more than $300 for one. I got mine for ~$275.
Need any info, let me know.
Cryto is offline  
Old 02-19-2005, 12:19 AM   #6
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Be very careful if you ever try to replace a barrel on one of these National Ordnance cast receivers, as the recoil spring tube housing is hollowed out on the bottom, and I crushed a receiver trying to change a barrel. Crumpled like an aluminum can, so I wouldn't have one on a bet. It wasn't mine, and I felt responsible, so I replaced it with a USGI Inland receiver. Kind of turned me off of them, if you know what I mean.

Further info on National Ordnance:
National Ordnance purportedly began making Carbines in 1960, in South El Monte, California (SO. Cal). At that time, USGI surplus parts were plentiful, except for barrels, receivers and a few small parts, which they made themselves, and used the surplus parts. Supposedly, all USGI parts will fit on them. They also used S.E. Overton stocks for at least some, if not all of their production, former stock supplier to Inland and Ordnance replacement contracts, as well as other commercial Carbine manufacturers.
As the surplus parts dried up, they began making all of the parts themselves, or purchased through subcontractors whom they wouldn't reveal. Production stopped in the mid 70's, with approximately 50,000 having been produced.
They also contracted to supply Carbines sold under other names such as: Alpine, Rowan-Becker and Santa Fe. Interestingly, they purchased some receivers from overseas which were "soft". Probably the one I crushed too! Most, but not all of this information is contained in War Baby II, and I have NOT quoted directly from it but used some of Larry Ruths information here.
 
Old 02-19-2005, 12:23 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Maine
Posts: 236
Definetly have to get my reference library together. I can see where a lot of costly mistakes can be made if one doesn't take the time to do proper research. Interesting info on the recoil spring tube and results of trying to rebarrel. With parts quality issues and shortcuts like that, I can see why they're no longer in business. I have 2 of the Auto Ordnance carbines. Given the parts quality issues I've had with them, I hope they don't become another similar statistic.
1st Maine is offline  
Old 02-19-2005, 01:17 PM   #8
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I think that's going to be true with ANY after-market Carbine 1st Maine, as they just don't measure up to the quality that the WWII USGI Carbines had to, per the military requirements. They would probably have to cost $1500 or more to get the same quality, and go through the testing and quality control that the WWII Carbines did, maybe more. Don't forget, the WWII manufacturers made hundreds of thousands of them in a short period, so their costs were recoverable, quickly. They knew how many they needed in advance, and every one they made would be sold immediately under Ordnance contract. They even got advances to buy buildings and equipment because we were at war. Any manufacturer would give their eye teeth to have a contract like that!
In 25 + years, I have yet to find ANY after-market Carbine that approaches a WWII version, in quality, fit or function.
 
Old 02-19-2005, 03:34 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 942
My N.O. carbine was apparently made in Spain, since it says "Spain" on the rear dovetail. The trigger group looks like its USGI, but its non-magnetic, so that should tell ya something. Its an ok shooter I guess, if I could make it jam less and eject to 3 O'Clock it would be a good shooter.
Still for $275, its not bad.
Its in the 41K serial # range.
Cryto is offline  
Old 02-20-2005, 06:43 PM   #10
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I hope nobody thinks I hate after-market Carbines becuase I don't, I own two Universals myself! They have their place as shooters, but they sure don't work, fit or feel like my USGI Carbines. For the price, they're great! One was free, and the other I only paid $100 for, so what the heck?
 
Old 02-20-2005, 07:06 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Maine
Posts: 236
Its not a matter of thinking you hate after-market, rather a growing disappointment in 2 new firearms I have that need so much attention to keep them working. I'm pretty much resolved that I'll have to pay for and install some GI parts on them to improve the reliability. I just expected more from a "new" rifle. I've had excellent experiences with most of my AR-15s and all of my M1As. On the bright side, it did introduce me to a wonderful little rifle to start collecting and enjoying!
1st Maine is offline  
Old 02-21-2005, 01:10 PM   #12
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Maine
Posts: 23
1st Maine pm sent

pm sent
danb is offline  
Old 02-21-2005, 02:32 PM   #13
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Every time someone comes out with a new Carbine clone, I wince as I know they can't possibly produce a good copy for what they are charging. If one reads War Baby! the way Larry intended, you will see how far they went to insure a reliable weapon was placed in our soldiers hands. After all, their very lives depended upon the Carbines being produced, and Ordnance had VERY strict specifications and expectations even though it was rushed into production and expanded for the war effort. A miracle of American production and know-how, under the worst conditions imagineable, and they produced over 6 million of these little babies. Glad we corrupted another shooter 1st Maine, join the club!

As a sidebar, I finally refused to work on AO .45 autos, as I could easily have 100 hours into making them work correctly. They also used cheap, soft import parts internally to keep the price down. Some day, and I saw this in the Plumbing & Heating field also as a contractor, American manufacturers will wake up to the fact that we will pay extra for quality over cheap. At least, I hope they will.
 
Reply

  Gun Hub > Battle Rifles > M1 Carbine


Search tags for this page

can you rebarel a national ordanance m1 carbine

,

national ordance blued receiver

,

national ordnance m1 carbine

,

national ordnance m1 carbine quality

,

national ordnance m1 carbine receivers

,

national ordnance m1 carbine slide

,

national ordnance m1 carbine slides

,

value of m1 carbine national ordnance


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
National Ordnance 03A3? Snake45 Rifles 17 01-22-2008 09:05 PM
WTB-M1903A3 national ordnance reciever linus9 Accessories 0 01-02-2007 06:31 PM
National Ordnance BM-59?? bamaboy M1 Garand 2 06-19-2006 08:27 PM
National Ordnance question. Chuck Lamb M1 Carbine 5 09-25-2004 12:51 AM
National Ordnance gedro Rifles 13 08-30-2004 05:13 AM




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2002 - 2014 Gun Hub. All rights reserved.